Talk:Émile Bouchard

Assessment

I have assessed this article as a Stub, as it only contains the basic information on the subject, and of low importance, as I do not feel that many people outside of hockey fans would be familiar with the subject of the article. Cheers, CP 14:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I've upgraded this from a stub and increased the importance. I have added a great amount of detail to this article. This is a fairly significant person to Canadian hockey. Not as well know as the Rocket, or Howe, etc. he was however Captian of the Canadians and made significant contribution, especially within Quebec. BashBrannigan (talk) 06:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Bouchard and the 'flying frenchmen'

I seem to remember reading in a book that Bouchard didn't get the credit he deserved for contributing to the creation of the "firewagon" style of the Canadiens of the 40's and 50s. The way I remember it the argument was that with his passing ability and instinct to read the play the Canadiens of that era perfected the counter-attack in hockey. Unfortunately, I can't remember the book I read this. If anyone knows what book this was, or any other reference, please let me know. BashBrannigan (talk) 21:13, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Comments on Completion

I began working on this as this was a significant figure in hockey in Canada and deserved more than just the stub that it was. I added his career stats today, which I believe is about the end of what I can do. I've gone through as many web and book references as I could find. There may be much more material available in French, but unfortunately my French isn't good enough and it would take me far to long to read. One note about the career stats. I found a disagreement in the name of Bouchards junior leagues. One source put Verdun in the Quebec Senior League (hockeydb.com, I think). Another said he played for the Montreal Senior Canadiens, instead of the Montreal Junior Canadiens (I think that was on the Hall of Fame site). I went with Total Hockey as that seemed the most reliable source. The article may also be short on his personal life, which I may add, but I regarded that as secondary importance. BashBrannigan (talk) 05:04, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Returning to do more work

I've put a bit more work into the article. I've added sections which I think break it up and make it more readable. I also removed references to Joe Pelletier's website http://habslegends.blogspot.com. I mention this because in the FA nomination I defended the website. it's with regret I remove it because it's a great blog, but since the time I defended it I've spotted the odd error on some of the articles. I guess a blog is a blog! I also added a bit on Bouchard's personal life and retirement. However, I'm limited by lack of english sources. I added a story about his encounter with the Mafia during his restaurant days, which was detailed in a 2008 exhibit about his life and career. The website is reliable and I'm confident about the source. I tried to find an english source, but had to go with the french source here as I have on some of his personal life material. BashBrannigan (talk) 04:55, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Émile Bouchard/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mo Rock...Monstrous (talk) 17:46, 22 September 2010 (UTC) I don't see any major problems to begin with. Images look to be in order with both in the public domain. I will break up the review by specific sections and a general/overall section in case I don't have time to review everything and to help break up the review.

There are two dead links:

• # 46 - redirects to the Canadiens home page (there is a second reference for the same sentence so it might be alright just to remove it, also you might want to archive the other reference since it id from TSN which is not that stable of a web sight in terns of keeping older articles.)
• # 49 - needs to be replaced.

Both fixed

Youth and learning the game:

• With regards to Bouchard's banking career it might work better if the line was moved into his "entrepreneurial skills" paragraph, it feels a little out of place were it is. But I understand why it's there and this might just be a personal preference.

Looking it over, it probably fits best where it is.

• It would be better to use a template to indicate inflation rather than the calculation from a web site. I think that Template:Inflation should work for this.

Added

Arrival to the Canadiens:

• a couple of things about the following quote

"In his first training camp, he had body checked his own team-mates, including the veteran players, with abandon. Then, in league games other teams discovered with Bouchard in the lineup they could no longer push Canadien players around. Bouchard's presence reinvigorated the Canadiens and he is credited with playing an important part in bringing the franchise back from the brink of oblivion."

1. The line about training camp seems unneeded as is. There needs to be more developed between the correlation of the two sentences. such as - did his style of play rub off on his teammates or was he an enforcer early on in his career and that's why other teams could no longer push them around?

2. It seems redundant to say his own team-mates in the training camp (and could be confusing to someone not familiar with training cams), why not something like "In his first training camp Bouchard checked players with abandon, including the Canadeins' established veterans."

3. the phrase "back from the brink of oblivion." (which appears multiple times) seems a bit "punch-up" and unencyclopedic to me. Why not refur to the known problems of the franchise and say something like "from the verge of folding." or "...of moving"? If this is a quote from the ref could you please put it in quotations.

Modified this part here. Should be clearer.

• "stay-at-home" defensive defenceman - seems redundant as they both describe the same style of Defense

Fixed

• "firewagon hockey" - is their a link that describes this? it might be better to explain it better for non-hockey readers who might not know what the term refers to.

Definition is listed in reference for term

• "Although having an immediate impact on the team, Bouchard did not fully develop into an NHL star player until his second year. In his first season 1941–42 he collected six points for the regular season and finally scored the first NHL goal of his career in the Canadiens' first-round playoff loss to Detroit" the line about not being an NHL star should go after the overview of his first season it feels awkward where its at now.

Modified

NHL star:

• "...several years without losing more games than they won." Why not just say losing season?

Fixed

• "...place with a respectable 19 wins and 19 losses with 12 ties" Does "respectable" need to be in this sentence? Respectable to who?

Fixed

• "Bouchard had become one of the most reliable defencemen in the league. He would be named to the NHL First All Star team for the next three seasons." Ref? at lest one of the two sentences should have a reference, preferably both, but the first sentence can be inferred by the second.

Added and clarified

• "...a female fan attacked Bouchard with a hat pin. Bouchard responded to the spearing by pushing..." this may be a bit more nit-picking but the "spearing" seems oddly brought up. What about "a...female fan attacked Bouchard spearing him with a hat pin. Bouchard responded by pushing..."

Fixed

• "out to a waiting wagon" I assume this means Patty Wagon it should be linked if that is in fact what is. If not what about squad car or police vehicle/car? A Patty Wagon seems excessive by could have been on hand in case a crown got out of control.

Changed it to police car

• "...Harvey undertook one of the offensive rushes for which he became famous, he was confident" I think there should be a comma before the word for.

Fixed

Leader and mentor

• "Although not playing to quite the same level prior to the injury" Ref?

Removed and modified sentence as it is to really definitive.

• "To the roar of the crown Ted Lindsay, captain of the Wings, returned the keys he had stolen." it should be crowd. Also it feels a bit awkward to me and was it an intended part of the ceremony for Lindsay to be involved? it might not hurt to expand it slightly. Again it might be a personal preference though.

Added more detail

• "On March 22, 1953, while Bouchard was travelling to Detroit for the last game of the season, his restaurant Chez Butch Boucard was gutted by a fire started in a basement at 3:22am soon after employees and patrons had left." this is out of place where it is. I think it needs to be put down in the retirement section where it talks about his restaurant. Plus "traveling" is misspelled.

Moved and fixed

Also jumping ahead a bit it might be better if the retirement and family sections were merged into a person life section.

Done

• "Blake was beginning a career as coach which was to be so successful it would eventually overshadow his years as a player." This line is about Blake which has nothing to do with Bouchard, I think it should be removed.

Removed

• "However, it was Bouchard, recognizing Blake's value as a "player's-coach", who used his leadership to ease the transition and encourage Blake's acceptance by the Canadien players." The beginning of the sentence seems odd to me why not drop the "However, it was".

Modified as part of work with previous comment

• "As the season progressed, due to physical problems Bouchard was forced to miss the last half of the season and the playoffs." Again the beginning seems odd to me What about dropping the "As the season progressed" or go into more detail about the "physical problems"

Fixed

• "A reporter once asked the canny Bouchard what he thought of coaching methods in the NHL. He replied, "Hockey should be more like football, with a coach for the defence, one for the offence and maybe one for the goalies." Indicative of his usual foresight it would be many years before such practices would become common in the NHL." This seems tacked on in the end is there more about when this occurred or what the situation was when he said it?

Moved it to retirement, as it seems more appropriate there.

Retirement from hockey

• Is their any correlation to the time of the fire in his restaurant to his refusal to pay the "mob"? It seems like a logical leap, is there any reference that discus the two events being related?

Nothing definitive from any sources, and while it does seem plausible, it can't be proven.

Awards and achievements

• References? not all of these are covered in the prose.

From what I can tell the only thing not covered is the trophy, which may need a bit of work to find a reference for. Everything else is included already.

I'm not too concerned about the trophy and I was in a bit of a rush when I was finishing up the review so I miss read on of the NHL all-stars as NHL all-star games.--Mo Rock...Monstrous (talk) 20:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Career statistics

• The Stanley Cups on the sides of the table make it look odd what about something like the Gordie Howe stats?

Cleaned up

General

• Wiki links - NHL teams and seasons need to be wiki linked plus International League and others.

Should have them all linked now.

• Although it's in the intro the first mention of NHL in the body should be displayed as National Hockey League (NHL) and linked.

Done

There is a lot here but nothing too major. Once these have been taken care of I'll give it one more look over to see if anything else arises. Thanks--Mo Rock...Monstrous (talk) 19:15, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

I think I covered everything here. If there are any other concerns let me know, I'll deal with them. Kaiser matias (talk) 19:23, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks good. All of My concerns were taken care of, I will pass this artical. Good work.--Mo Rock...Monstrous (talk) 20:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

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