Talk:Zarathustra (fictional philosopher)

Actually the name of the title theme of 2001: A Space Oddysey is called "The Dawn" and it is part of a larger work entitled "Thus Spake Zarathustra." -Ryan Callahan

---

How does Nietzsche model his fiction on the Bible? It is actually surprising how his Zarathustra is much like other prophets besides Spitama Zarathushtra. For instance, Muhammad (pbuh), and the cave where he received the Qur'an from Gabriel, and of course the myths of Zarathushtra from the later Avestan Pahlavi texts. Nietzche's writing, for anyone who has read at least one book, knows he is more influenced by Classical mythology than the Bible and certainly not monotheism. To a Nietzschean comparing his book to the Bible would be offensive, not because of his immoralism, but because Nietzsche spoke better Greek than God! That he was trying to write a better book than the Bible, is typical Nietzshean sardonicism. I'm leaving everything because I'm just wondering if I misinterpreted the wording, as I am wont to jump to the defence of Nietzsche in knee-jerk reaction ;-)

As to why he chose this name for his book - why not ask Nietzsche? :-

"I have not been asked, as I should have been asked, what the name of Zarathustra means in my mouth, the mouth of the first immoralist: for what constitutes the tremendous historical uniqueness of that Persian is just the opposite of this. Zarathustra was the first to consider the fight of good and evil and the very wheel in the machinery of things: the transposition of morality into the metaphysical realm, as a force, cause, and end in itself, is his work. But this question itself is at bottom its own answer. Zarathustra created this most calamitous error, morality; consequently, he must also be the first to recognize it. Not only has he more experience in this matter, for a longer time, than any other thinker--after all, the whole of history is the refutation by experiment of the principle of the so-called "moral world order"--what is more important is that Zarathustra is more truthful than any other thinker. His doctrine, and his alone, posits truthfulness as the highest virtue; this means the opposite of the cowardice of the "idealist" who flees from reality; Zarathustra has more intestinal fortitude than all other thinkers taken together. To speak the truth and to shoot well with arrows, that is Persian virtue.--Am I understood?--The self-overcoming of morality, out of truthfulness; the self-overcoming of the moralist, into his opposite--into me--that is what the name of Zarathustra means in my mouth."

That is from Walter Kaufmann's translation of "Ecce Homo" (Why I am a Destiny, ch. 3), so of course copyrighted, but here for future reference to anyone wishing to abstract any of it; or its original German can be found at Project Gutenberg.

In addition, the sentence that 19th century Germans thought so is very relevent and interesting, but it might be mentioned that modern scholars also agree that Zarathushtra was the first dualist, though him being the first monotheist is incorrect in the strictest sense of course, as Abraham was roughly a contemporary of Zarathushtra. Khirad 08:30, 30 September 2005 (UTC)