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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was - kept - SimonP 15:17, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

Mario Lozano

[edit]

Non-notable individual whose name was inadvertently found in a US Army report on the shooting of Italian Nicola Calipari. Listing of this particular individuals information may also have serious repercussions to his personal safety. I also recommend his name be removed from all related articles. Delete TDC 17:51, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

  • Strong Keep — Notable. Spc. Lozano was found by the US Army report to be the only person who fired on Calipari's vehicle, ergo, the individual who fired the fatal bullet. As of today, his name has been widely mentioned in the press, both foreign and domestic, including in America's newspaper of record. [1] Clearly, listing a name widely known poses no security risk. Also, he is the subject of a possible indictment by the Investigating Magistrates of Rome in their ongoing criminal investigation into the shooting. Furthermore, more pertinent information about Spc. Lozano is likely to come to light in the subsequent judicial inquiry, more than could be included in the page on Nicola Calipari.69.67.230.91 18:54, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: User's second edit.Jayjg (talk) 21:28, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: Please note that I have edited and created numerous articles, but always anonymously, and from various university computer labs, which bear different addresses. This is just where I am today.
  • Keep — Notable. I fully concur with the second comment (User:69.67.230.91). In addition, given the saga of the rescued journalist, the extent of the US and Italian disagreement on the details of the incident and, the length of the rancur, this information is no less relevant than knowing that Sirhan Sirhan and Chapman were the killers of Bobby Kennedy and John Lennon, respectively.
  • Delete. Not notable. Jayjg (talk) 21:28, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, nn. Even the guy he allegedly shot isn't notable enough for his own article, IMNSHO. And there is nothing in the article which substantiates the accusation. RickK 21:31, May 3, 2005 (UTC)
    • Nicola Calipari doesn't deserve his own article? His death provoked a major international incident, and he's a national hero in Italy (and, per the U.S. Ambassador to Italy, "our hero too.") President Bush and Condoleeza Rice called personally to express their condolences over his death. If he doesn't meet your standards for notoriety, I think your call as to Lozano's non-notoriety is clearly suspect. 128.122.128.41 15:47, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The subject isn't notable enough for his own article. This information can go in the relevant articles. (I do object to the idea of his name being removed from the articles, however.) Gamaliel 21:52, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. This guy is a major figure in the report into the death of Nicola Calipari. I don't understand how this article could affect his personal safety. All the information about the incident is in the public domain since the italian press released the "un-censored" version of the US government's report from which this article appears to be based. Leithp 22:25, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Not notable on his own. What WP say about him? Mention belongs in Nicola Calipari. Quale 23:26, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep. At least for now, as long as this story continues to develop, a small, but key element, is notable and important. If passage of time proves this man is a non-entity, it can be deleted/altered then. 141.211.138.85 00:01, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep. Incident is internationally very notable; this soldier's name and alleged role have been featured prominently in international media, with a lot of short-term notability. Not as much long-term notability, probably, as the examples (who killed in circumstances unlike this one) cited by the anon ... but time will tell. With the major national inquiries still in progress, and many national leaders and major media (except in the USA) up in arms about it, this individual is a topic which may switch from temporarily-notable to trivial or to long-term encyclopedic in coming weeks. If Spc. Lozano's role fades and the meme becomes "US miscommunication leads to shooting of Giuliana Sgrena and escorting agents" rather than "a National Guard soldier killed them", this should perhaps be turned into a redirect to either Giuliana Sgrena (my preferred choice) or Nicola Calipari. Barno 02:49, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, the US press sure hasn't picked it up. This is the first time I'd even heard his name. A search for "Mario Lozano" at http://news.google.com/ comes up with six listings, two of whom are not him, and only one of which is a US news source. RickK 04:51, May 4, 2005 (UTC)
      • I think that's more a reflection on the US press than on the importance of the story. Leithp 07:30, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Google News does not index foreign language papers. Check out La Stampa, Corriere della Sera, La Repubblica, etc. Corriere in particular mentions his name as an important element of the story, and indicate that the story may develop further - the Italian legal system is currently considering a judicial inquiry or a criminal indictment, in which case he would be called as a witness, and his (non)participation would add greatly to the noteworthiness. There are reports out of Italy that he is likely to receive a subpoena. [2] 128.122.128.41 14:39, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • Not true, as I said, three of the four references were foreign press, one being British, one being Australian, and one Italian, "Agenzia Giornalistica Italia". RickK. 66.60.159.190 20:19, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
          • Did you notice, RickK, those stories were all in English? If they're in a foreign language, i.e. Ialian, they're not in google news. So here's a link to another Italian story in Corriere della Sera, which of course, was not indexed. [3]. If you want a count of foreign media mentions, you'll have to use Lexis. BTW, a Lexis search also reveals many U.S. media stories that aren't present in Google News - as of 5/04/05, Lozano is named in the L.A. Times, the New York Times, the New York Daily News, Newsday, and the Chicago Tribune.


  • Strong Keep.- I fully concur with the second opinion and with Leithp. This person is a key figure in a international incident and just because the US press has downplayed his significance, doesn't make him any less important. Bert25
  • Keep, per Bert25, and aim to cover each country's POV equally well. Kappa 19:03, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, this was a very significant international incident and Lozano appears to have been one of the primary participants. I suspect he's probably better known in Italy than in the U.S., just as the incident as a whole received greater publicity there. TDC also provided no basis for his claim that this article may have "serious repercussions to his personal safety". Firebug 20:16, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep because its important. why delete it Yuckfoo 23:32, 5 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Huh? This is an obvious keeper. Grue 19:17, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, I cannot see any safety implication in this case. --M7it 14:19, 8 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
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