Talk:Mediopassive voice

This original def:

The mediopassive voice is a grammatical voice in which the actor of a stative verb is not expressed. This is a special type of passive voice, which is the general phenomena of the actor of a verb not being expressed.

Is just plain wrong. Benwing 06:14, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

-tur is the THIRD person!

"Classical Armenian had a mediopassive form which was marked by changing the verb's thematic vowel instead of with a unique conjugation like in other Indo-European languages." What does this mean? Isn't changing the verb's thematic vowel just one way of constructing forms inside a conjugation? And does Armenian only do this with verbs with thematic inflections (which sounds a bit weird off-hand to me), or does Armenian only have thematic verbs?Bantaar (talk) 22:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC

Icelandic

Icelandic is Scandinavian, but it has three voices: active, middle, and passive. For instance:

• kyssa: to kiss
• kyssast: to kiss (one another, on the lips)
• vera kyssað: to be kissed

This should be added. Siúnrá (talk) 13:09, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree... somehow. However, as you point out, Icelandic makes a formal distinction between the middle and the passive voice. So, in spite of having a very valid point, your correction doesn't really belong in an article about the MEDIOPASSIVE voice, since languages with a mediopassive voice conflate the middle and the passive voice. Icelandic is more sophisticated than that, having different forms for the middle and the passive. Bantaar (talk) 18:23, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

True. But one has to take into account, that the active is the basic form. The passive is not a conjugation per se but is always formed with the help of auxiliary verbs plus the past participle. The mediopassive not only has a separate set of conjugation rules, but can also lead to a drastic change in meaning.

A few examples: Fara (to go) vs. farast (dying from external, natural, but not biological causes, for instance farast á sjó, meaning die at sea.) Koma (come) vs. komast (make ones way to some goal). Drepa (kill) vs. drepast (to die miserably). The list goes on.85.220.22.139 (talk) 18:55, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Danish citation

"Reciprocal: "Vi ses" is the everyday expression equivalent in Danish to the English "See you." The present active is "vi ser" (we see); the mediopassive (commonly called passive) form is historically derived thus: de ser sig ("they see themselves") → de ses ("they are seen" or "they see themselves/see each other" or "we will be seen by each other". The meaning is reciprocal, one of the medial uses: "We'll be seeing each other.""

I don't think that it's quite right to translated "de ses" to "we will be seen by each other". "De ses", first off, is third person ("they are seen/see themselves"). Further, the future progressive -- which I'll confess to have introduced here in the first place -- is not really good, I think, in the way it's used now. Danish verbs don't really have any distinction of aspects, its tenses are mainly about tempus. (To explicitly distinct the progressive present from the plain present in Danish, you'd have to use an rephrasing outside the verbal system itself, like "jeg sidder og læser" or "jeg er ved at læse" for "I'm reading".) Anywayz... as I first introduced this bit myself, making a leap in the name of economy of words, I'll make yet another edit in an attempt to brush out the confusion I feel has introduced since then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bantaar (talk • contribs) 19:04, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Spanish

Spanish is an example of a modern language with a mediopassive voice, normally indicated by the use of a reflexive pronoun.

Now wait a minute, when you use a reflexive pronoun, it isn’t a mediopassive, now is it? It is simply a reflexive verb. If a reflexive verb counts as a mediopassive, then German has a mediopassive, too. --Tom S. Fox (talk) 09:07, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

In Spanish the middle voice can be expressed with reflexives (El barco se hundió).

For a sentence to fit into the categorization of medio-passive, it must satisfy these three conditions:

1. The PATIENT must be the grammatical SUBJECT of the sentence (as in the passive voice).

2. The AGENT can not be added, as opposed to the passive (El barco se hundió por los piratas is not grammatical). If the agent can be added, perhaps it is simply a passive construction (El barco fue hundido por los piratas) and if the agent is the PATIENT itself, then it is a typical MIDDLE-voice (El barco se hundió solo/por sí mismo).

3. It can be translated as a passive-voice construction (hence the name medio-PASSIVE).

Are there such sentences in German?

--EsperantoItaliano (talk) 16:35, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Se necesita editor

This paragraph is incomplete, hard to understand and contradicts itself:

An example sentence is El padre se enojó al ver a su hijo romper la lámpara. The English translation is "The father became angry upon seeing his son break the lamp." The verb se enojó is said to be mediopassive because it comprises the reflexive pronoun se and the simple verb enojó, which together literally mean "angered himself." This would be literally translated "The father angered himself upon seeing his son break the lamp." Pragmatics quickly rejects the middle-voice meaning for the intended mediopassive-voice meaning, translated above as "got angry," because the mediopassive voice is rarely used. Many intransitive Spanish verbs behave that way: me caí, I fell; me cansé, I became tired.

Can we correct it, complete it or give a better example?

--EsperantoItaliano (talk) 00:54, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Croatian part is about Reflexive Voice

Hello
in the Croatian part of this article there is text about reflexive voice
Reflexive Voice (Verb) is "reflexive verb is, loosely, a verb whose direct object is the same as its subject; for example, "I wash myself"."
That's exactly what's in croatian part, so it should be in this article rather than here

Have a nice day — Preceding unsigned comment added by KtośNapewnoToJest (talk • contribs) 17:35, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

References