Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Doctors' mess

Article listed on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion Apr 27 to May 3 2004, consensus was to keep. Discussion:

~~Funny, but way too unspecific.~~ -- Chris 73 | (New) Talk 13:29, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Now a valid article after the edit of JFW. Keep. -- Chris 73 | (New) Talk 02:57, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Keep. A short formal introduction defining the term in a dignified way should be added, of course. I had never heard of a "doctors' mess" before and it's an interesting little sidelight on medical culture. Maybe if we're lucky someone can add a photograph of one! Dpbsmith 15:09, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Keep. I've written a more formal introduction and converted Erich's experiences into an eyewitness account. A photo would be wholly illustrative. JFW | T@lk 16:20, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- Keep. As a sidenote, you or User:Erich gasboy might want to follow that link to AE. --Brockert 21:36, Apr 27, 2004 (UTC)
  - Thanks Brockert—I've disambiguated it.
    JFW | T@lk 08:08, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for the excellent work on my stubb. I'll look out for a photo.--Erich gasboy 14:57, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Keep, but see below on further recommendation on edit. ~~Provide references that this is real, or delete.~~ Is this a non-US thing? I have not come across such a thing ever in the US, and those experiences include teaching hospitals and pirvate hospitals. Granted, as a resident we had a lounge, but nothing as in the Doctor's Mess. A few hospitals have had physician cafeteria's, which in the main were small rooms off the main cafeteria so physicians could talk and shop, which can be upsetting to non-medical folks. This doesn't seem universal enough of a phenomenon to qualifiy as an encyclopedia topic. Kd4ttc 20:43, 1 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
- Steven, it could be this is European/Australian (Erich started this). Hospitals in the UK are government-funded (see NHS) and doctor's messes are usually messy. For a "good" mess, see here.
  JFW | T@lk 21:08, 1 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
- I would then move this to an article on socialization in medicine if we have such a thing. Keep the photograph! I think many medical students go into medical school idealistic and come out changed and less so. There is a peer driven cynicism in part, and some detachment you have to learn. There is also a big change to conservatism, at least in the US. I don't know where this comes from, but perhaps it has been studied. I'd leave in the doctor's mess. Looks like in the UK this was a consistent part of training programs, and the comraderie that could be built there must bring on fond memories. (Affairs ?!?!?) Kd4ttc 00:15, 3 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
- I think doctors' mess should stay on it’s own page especially after the excellent work on it. It will never be a big or popular page but it is almost done as a nice short article. It has wider implications than the ‘sociological.’ As well as being a part of most hospitals it also has industrial relations implications. medical working conditions or perks of being a doctor would have a link here. (there are often disputes with administration about the room – cleanliness, size, facilities etc). It is not possible to refer to if it is buried in a page on medical sociology – which is a huge and fascinating topic in it’s own right. (dunno about the affair bit though!) --Erich gasboy 10:28, 3 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

End discussion