Talk:Pomesanians

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Untitled

Note:

Pomerania - west of the Vistula river - Pomorze (Polish), Pommern (German)
Pomesania - east of the Vistula river - Pomesanien (German)

Old

Pomorze consists of Pomorze Gdanskie and Pomorze Szczecinskie. Currently the western part of Pomorze Szczecinskie, with it's historical Polish cities of Strzalow, Wologoszcz, Dymin, Naklo, Gryfia, Gostkow, Trzebusz, Roztoka and Radogoszcz, remains within the borders of Germany. Polish language in this part was still the dominating language of the peasantry until late XVIIth century.

SC

Yes Space-Cadet, it is known that Polish have a lively imagination.

Actually Polish language was developed and for the first time written in the 16th century. There are countless 19/20th century Polish writings transforming everything and everyplace into Polish. A small number of Pomeranian people spoke Kashubian and Polish farmworkers did come in the summer to work in Germany, to suplement their income. Many Polish workers or students are still coming to Germany in the summer months to work, to supplement their income. And the Polish Market in West-Berlin is/was a longtime event. Poles started coming in the 1970's, unofficially, which so irked the Eastern GDR Germans, seeing the Poles travel through East Germany into West Germany, while East Germans were not allowed to go. That started the 1989 events.

I am looking at a ca. 1600 map of Pommern or Pomeren and am trying to match the names to your Polish translations:

Straelsunt(Stralsund) = Strzalow

Wolgast = Wologoszcz

Dem(m)in = Dymin

Nackel (Nakeln) = Naklo

Griffenberg (Greifsberg) = Gryfia

Gutzkow = Gostkow ?

Rostock = Roztoka

Radegast = Radogoszcz

Trzebusz I cannot guess this one. perhaps Treptow ?

user:H.J.

Good job, but of course those are not translations, but the original names of those places, from the time when Germany haven't crossed the Laba river (currently called Elbe). Names were changed to German sounding ones after Germany invaded those teritories. Polish language originated in XVI th century? I guess Poles accomplished quite a lot while being the only nation in Europe without a language.

SC

To HJ

Trzebusz was an important trading center, as well as the place of the religious cult on the Obodrzyce (Obodrites) territory, that's why it was wiped from the face of the Earth, after German invasion.

Treptow on the Rega River is an old polish city of Trzebiatow, within the borders of Poland.

Try to find a map of those territories but not from 1600, rather from 900 or 1000 (and try if you can find a Lusatian publication). You might be very surprised.

You seem to have a pretty lively imagination yourself, probably after Ratajczak, Wojciechowicz, Krawlikowski, Resetzki, Kluczikowski, Lokaschewski, Schmolinski and your other numerous Polish ancestors.

Zaciekly Przyjaciel - SC

http://www.friedensschule.schulnetz.hamm.de/kultur/19jh/Deubu2.htm

Why repeating those errors about the Deutsche Bund? The polish provinces were never part of the Bund!

Had to revert because of some major historical errors that apeared in the last revision.

There was never such thing as Lithuanian Habsburgs! Where on Earth did that come from? Please explain.
Sigismundus III was the founder of the Polish Vasas, to differentiate with the Swedish Vasas (Gustavus Adolphus, Carolus Gustavus, etc.), who never ruled Poland.
Western Prussia became the name for some of the Polish lands invaded in 1772, and forcibly incorporated into the Kingdom of Prussia. Royal Prussia was an integral part of the Kingdom of Poland from 1466 to 1772.

SC

Jan 30/Feb 1, 2006 edits

It is certainly not appropriate to remove the Polish history of this area. The veracity of the other changes (Protestant bishops, etc.) I cannot verify. If they are correct, they should be integrated into the existing text. Rmhermen 19:03, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rmhermen References:

It is certainly not appropriate to remove the Prussian history of this area [1]. It is certainly not appropriate to distort actual history. But this is what is constantly done in Wikipedia.

For the history of Pomesania, which was removed by several people, last by you here are some references:

1.Zedler-Lexicon.de (Zedlers Universal Lexicon 1732-1754)- Pomesanien.

2.German Wikipedia : Pomesanien.

3.A map of Magnus Prussia Ducatus from 1690 [2] (Pomesania in pink to the left of Warmia/Ermland (small green wedge-shaped)

Wikipedia contains too many 'deliberate mistakes' such as the one you just repeated. You broke it, you fix it, not me. MG Feb 1, 2006

Recent information on Pomesania was vandalised by Molobo. Therefore it is posted her:

Pomesania is the former name of an area now in northern Poland, in the vicinity of the cities of Elblag (Elbing) and Malbork (Marienburg), to the east of the lower Vistula river. Pomesania is one of the four dioceses, which were erected in Prussia in 1243, the other three being Ermland/Warmia, Culmerland and Samland.

The area was described in 98 AD by Tacitus in his Germania. It was populated by the nation of Baltic Prussians.

In 1225 Duke Conrad of Masovia invited the Teutonic Knights to increase his territory and to protect that which was already conquered from the Pagan Prussians, while they were regaining it. The city of Elbing (since 1945 Elblag) was founded in 1237 near the ancient Prussian trading town of Truso.

The territory is said in legend to have been named after Pomeso, a son of Widewuto, chieftain of the Prussians, the Baltic people who inhabited the area at the time of its takeover and Christianization by the Teutonic Order in the 13th century. In 1243 Pomesania and the other three dioceses of the Catholic Church of Prussia, were put under the jurisdiction of the archbishop of Riga.

The region became a part of Ducal Prussia in 1525, when it became protestant and was incorporated into the Kingdom of Prussia at the First Partition of Poland in 1772, becoming with the rest of Prussia a part of the German Empire in 1871. After 1920, when large parts of Germany came to Poland as Polish Corridor, most of the region remained part of the German Reich exclave East Prussia. - In 1945 eastern parts of Germany were conquered by Soviet Union, who gave parts to Poland, sanctioned by Potsdam Agreement. + In 1945, after 173 years Pomesania was returned to Poland year under the Potsdam Agreement.

List of catholic and protestant Bishops of Pomesania [3]

External Link

Map of Magnus Prussia Ducatus 1690 [4] (Pomesania in pink in western part of Prussia) MG 2'2'2006