Talk:Norwegian Americans

Miscellanous points of WKP style

Although he is well known, calling someone by their last name without having given their first is bad form. "Columbus" should be "Christopher Columbus", and there's no possible reason I can think of why someone would change that.

The second "today" is redundant, since that is the title of the section. Also, unless we're counting the dead bodies of Norwegians in the U.S., the fact that the 4.5 million people discussed in the article are alive in America today is obvious to the reader.

As far as over-linking goes, this article was sorely lacking in that area. Each of the links are useful to readers and go along with our standard practices, such as linking the first instance of dates (for example, 1000). Beginning 21:14, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)

Valid point, thanks for wikifying. --Wernher 22:49, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

(Oops, regarding BSveen's reply below, I just meant that the 'over-linking' point was valid IMO. I made no comment on the other two points, but I see in retrospect that the indenting of my one comment is highly ambiguous.) --Wernher 14:58, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

While I would agree with Wernher that it is ostensibly a valid point that you are making, I just think it sounds a little awkward to say "There are more than 4.5 million persons of Norwegian ancestry in the U.S." without the 'today' on the end, regardless of the section heading. I think a little redundancy is not a problem as long as it makes the phrasing less awkward and makes what is trying to be said as clear as possible (especially considering that the History section immediately precedes the bullet in question..the word 'today' specifies that we are talking about the present, as opposed to 1910 or 1920, or whenever) - BSveen 10:29, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)

I generally agree. However, I guess one could discuss whether to use the word 'today' or 'now' to clarify the meaning. Oh well. --Wernher 14:58, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Talk page utilization

In the future, please utilize the Talk page if you are confused as to why edits are being made. Unless you can explain why you think your changes should remain, I will revert the article again at some point in the near future. Beginning 21:14, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)

Hmm, as far as common Wikiquette is concerned (note the last point in the linked-to paragraph), such messages to a specific user, although 'inspired' by work on an article, more properly belongs on his/her talk page. Other contributors would probably not be that interested, quite simply. So, to be a little sarcastic here, the talk page utilization point is not so easily taken by any of us :-) (No problems with your general point, of course, it's correct, but how about being a little more friendly? Never hurts.) --Wernher 22:49, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Population statistics off-topic?

I removed the information that you have now reinserted into the article on the Scandinavian population in the U.S. because it doesn't belong in an article about Norwegian-Americans in particular. If you would like to state that Norwegian-Americans are the most populous group of Scandinavians in the U.S., that is one thing, but to give census data on Scandinavians as a whole is unnecessary and overkill. Everything beyond that first comma has no place in this article. Beginning 21:14, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)

I for my part would say quite the opposite. The population statistics for Norwegian-Americans as well as Scandinavian-Americans are of relevant informational value to this and any other articles on Sc.-Americans (although naturally the statistics on N.-Americans as such would be exchanged with the other immigrant descendant groups for those other articles, I'd guess). I hope we can agree that the value of such statistics lies*, among other things, in the clear and NPOV language of concrete data contrary to general statements. --Wernher 22:49, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

(* No pun! Really!)

Treaty of Kiel?!

I am unaware that the treaty of Kiel and union with Sweden contributedt to, and much less caused, emigration from Norway. As far as I know, religious intolerance was unchanged to improved in the course of the union, and everything I've read indicates that economic necessity was the main driver in the latter part of the 19th century. I'm not going to revert that introduction, but I also think it needs to be changed. Also, we don't typically refer to modern-day Norwegians as "Norse" or "Norsemen." --Leifern 14:17, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Second that! Due to Norway not beeing industrialized yet, the younger sons who did not inherit a farm would take the oportunity to get a farm on their own i America. This is the main reason of the norwegian emigration.. Could he/she who wrote the part about the Kiel treaty pleace show some evidence or remove?--Njård 10:51, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

It is patent nonsense, and so removed. --Thorsen 15:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

White American template

This doesn't sit well with me. I'm not going to rush to revert, but I'd like to get a bit more of an explanation about it. --Leifern 23:48, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

The particular choice of terms, White American is charged; it is typically used by white supremacists. If so, I suspect most Norwegian Americans would prefer you not include us in your category. Why not use European American? Williamborg 00:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, if the purpose is to categorize and segment immigrant groups, we can do better than the term "white" - it can be done by phase of immigration, motivation for emigration, as well as the geographical origin. Race - whatever that means - is probably the least meaningful distinction. --Leifern 01:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Norwegian as a language used in USA today

If anyone know anything about it, it would be very interesting to see where the Norwegian language exists as a primary language in USA today (not including people born in Norway, and people to work there/recently moved). Perhaps also some names of towns where the use of the Norwegian language is more used than the average town. I read somewhere on Wikipedia that 81,000 (or something like it) uses Norwegian as a primary language in USA toda, but can't seem to find any place where these 81,000 people live.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.187.190.50 (talk) 09:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Some more pics?

Just a suggestion but perhaps it would be prudent to add a few other people to the two pictures on the template? As it is now it appears as if all Norwegian Americans are stunning Hollywood actresses. I think someone like John Ashcroft (though not so popular), Elliot Ness, or one of the Nobel prize winners would nicely complement the set. JRWalko 02:43, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The picture box area is completely out of control. Erik the Red ^(Talk) 12:52, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Deletion vote

Please see Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_August_31#List_of_Norwegian_Americans. Badagnani 01:10, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Deletion review discussion

Please see the deletion review discussion here. Badagnani 18:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Norwegian-Americans in the infobox

I believe we should remove the picture of Marilyn Monroe from the infobox, as it's very disputed whether or not Martin Edward Mortensen was in fact her father. If he was not, which is quite likely, Monroe is probably not a Norwegian-American. We should replace her picture with one of Karl Rove, who is a self-identified Norwegian-American, or/and John Ashcroft, both quite famous politicians. --Aqwis 16:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree. - Jorunn (talk) 19:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

What about Renée Zellweger? Is she part Sami American, part Norwegian American or part both? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bgagaga (talk • contribs) 04:49, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

James Cagney, Celeste Holm - even Mary-Kate_and_Ashley_Olsen have far far greater connections to Norway than half the pictures in that box. Someone needs to edit this by putting less pictures but those with closer connections. The pictures are pretty poor in choice. I have altered the Monroe box to include that her Norwegian parentage is unspecified. I have also added some names of actors with immediate Norwegian family ties like Lance Henriksen and Kristanna Loken. Torcello (talk) 14:58, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

The picture box needs to be changed. Why are there over 30 pictures? I think other ethnicities have around 10~15, which is what we should aim for. And why are there pictures of buildings? This article is about people, not flags in random buildings throughout the US. Right now these are the *people* listed, and I've put some of my thoughts on if I think they should be included in the next pictures.

• E. Ness - not include, others are more important
• W. Mondale - include
• K. Rove - include
• I. Pop - include
• K. Nelson - not include (I don't think we need to include every 19th century politician with Norwegian ancestry...)
• L. Anderson - maybe? just to include more diversity in fields, but I'm thinking no
• H. Humphrey - include
• K. Rockne - no
• S. Gurie - include
• E. Sevareid - maybe
• E. Warren - maybe
• E. Bakken - maybe
• L. Eder ·
• E. F. Kvamme ·
• H. C. Heg ·
• J. E. Hexum ·
• R. Hilton ·
• S. Struthers ·
• E. Paulsen ·
• J. Thune - I would say no, too many other politicians
• M. Groening ·
• J. Connelly ·
• K. Kener ·
• C.B. Anfinsen ·
• P. Presley ·
• J. Groban ·
• Beck ·
• T. Waits ·
• J. Ashcroft - no? important but I feel like we already have too many politicians here
• C. English - no, I don't think she's important enough

A lot of these people I don't know, but it seems like we have a lot of politicians, especially from the 19th century. The pictures should focus on whose made an impact on the world from a variety of fields. Avikakol (talk) 22:00, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Large removal prior to discussion and consensus

See [1]. Badagnani (talk) 23:15, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Why did the pictures of all of the Norwegian-Americans in the infobox get removed?? Gabagool (talk) 00:06, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Maybe we have an editor who wants to re-purpose all the fooian American articles so they only include people born in foo who migrated to the US and none of their descendants Hmains (talk) 02:36, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

That would be a different article. The inclusion criteria of the "X American" articles state that such articles include Americans of X ancestry. Bob Costas, for example, is half Greek American, but was not born in Greece, nor was his father. Badagnani (talk) 02:40, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Because none of them are actually sourced as "Norwegian Americans." As said above, Monroe's only identification comes from a surname, Groban has some sort of connection through his mother, Zellwegger has Sami descent (not even Norwegian) at best, etc... Bulldog123 20:25, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the comment about Renee Zellweger ignores some fundamental problems of ethnic identification in Northern Norway. Because of a great deal of intermarriage between Norwegians, Sami and Finns, it's usually impossible to determine the exact ethnic (as in genetic) background of most people. How a person self-identifies - particularly in the county of Finnmark, where Zellweger's mother is from - has more to do with culture and language, than with blood. Zellweger's grandmother (on her mother's side, obviously) has a Finnish last name, meaning she was almost certainly part of the sizable Finnish minority in Northern Norway. Her grandfather has a Norwegian last name, but both Sami and descendants of Finns have often adopted Norwegian last names, so that could mean anything, really. In any case, most of the Northern Norwegian Finns are descended from people who immigrated to Norway in the mid-19th century or earlier. My point here is to illustrate that genetic descent is often impossible to determine accurately in a Northern Norwegian context, so if blood is the determinant of ethnicity I doubt Zellweger can be accurately placed in the "Ethnicity X-American" scheme. From what little credible information I've been able to find, though, it seems that Finnish American would be the categorization that can be made with greatest certainty if blood is the determinant, whereas Norwegian American would be most reasonable if nationality (as separate from ethnicity, seeing as both Sami and the Finnish minority are Norwegians too, the same way German Americans, Norwegian Americans or Asian Americans are all Americans) or self-identification are the determinants. While it's certainly likely that she's at least partly Sami, simply because so many residents of Finnmark have some Sami blood, I haven't even been able to determine where that claim comes from. Maitreya (talk) 09:13, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Renee Zellweggers mother is Norwegian. She has family in Norway. As does Pricilla Presley and Paris Hilton to name a few. Mortyman (talk) 21:37, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I would say that at least half of the current pictures in the box should be removed. They are unnecessary and do not improve the article in the slightest. Erik the Red ^(Talk) 12:53, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Nicer person

== Can you get a nicer (or less disliked) person than Karl Rove to represent us?!?== —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.114.58.46 (talk) 00:01, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Table alignment

I condensed the two tables on Population and Percentage of Norwegian Americans by state into one. I couldn't figure out how to align all the numbered cells to the right, however. I think this will give the table a cleaner look and make the data easier to read. Many thanks. Reade (talk) 07:38, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

List of counties

I think the list of 500 counties are a bit long to say the least.

I vote for removal or reference to outside source.

--Mordekai wiki (talk) 15:15, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd say remove to a separate list, with a cut-off line maybe around 20-30%; I see no reason to list 4% etc....and why are some bolded, and others not??Skookum1 (talk) 15:22, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Relations during/after World War II?

No mention of this in article, but another article implies that there was significant support/assistance to Norway from Nowergian Americans during/after World War II. See Øystein Ore:

'During World War II, he was active in the movements "American Relief for Norway" and "Free Norway"'

Maybe someone with knowledge in this area could include?

Cje (talk) 11:01, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Page Messed Up- Any Solutions

Hi, I have been on this page a few times before, and came back to it today to find it with some new problems. It has almost doubled in length, as well as in pictures, both in the "Famous Norwegian Americans" section, some of which aren't people, to random shots of people on vacation. Before I do anything, I wanted to know if the community had any ideas on how to fix this problem. Feel free to comment Zobango (talk) 20:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Proposal to ban user-created montages from Infoboxes

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups#Infobox_Images_for_Ethnic_Groups. Bulldog123 09:35, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

opening lede: Ethnic group with heritage, or simply a list of people of a certain biological descent?

There is a dispute on the opening sentence: is this about an ethnic group or not. Is it about cultural heritage or is it only about biological descent. The article itself covers both --both people of Norwegian descent and their cultural heritage. Look at the reliable sources such as Ethnicity on Parade: Inventing the Norwegian American Through Celebration By April R. Schultz (1994) or Norwegian American Women: Migration, Communities, and Identities (2011). The Norwegian language in America: A study in bilingual behavior (1969) by EI Haugen - 1969; Neighboring: Discovering support systems among Norwegian-American women (1981) by AM Aamodt, DA Messerschmidt; ] In America the Men Milk the Cows: Factors of Gender, Ethnicity and Religion in the Americanization of Norwegian-American Women (1991) by LDA Lagerquist. The scholars talk about celebration, communities, identities and behavior. They obviously go far beyond the question of biological descent. Our job here is to follow the reliable sources, To cover the whole story as the scholars see it and not to narrow the article to a list of people. Anyway in and out on ethnicity, should take a look at the standard scholarly source: Stephan Themstrom, ed. Harvard encyclopedia of American ethnic groups (Harvard UP 1980). Rjensen (talk) 16:22, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Caption for "Notable People" photo

As the caption stands now:

"This patriotic fantasy in flag was given to the American friend, violinist and composer Ole Bull (1818–1880) as a gift from The New York Philharmonic Society. The flag of Norway has been the U.S. star banner that the union mark instead of the Norwegian-Swedish "Sildesalaten"."

I'm guessing something has been lost in translation here, but I don't want to make uninformed changes. Does anybody have any insight into this flag and what it means?

Washiwiki (talk) 19:57, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sofieantonsen.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:26, 17 January 2022 (UTC)