Talk:Kangaroo Island

Botched edit

Sorry Diceman, it was an edit gone wrong. I've been having issues with my connection lately, and before I had time to fix the fault, I lost it. --Cyberjunkie 05:58, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I thought something had gone haywire, I'm glad it wasn't you. :) Diceman 17:13, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Tourism

I deleted this section because 1) Wikipedia is not a travel agency - most of the time :-) 2) almost every informations in the Tourism section is included in the Wildlife section, and then don't need its own paragraph. --Sam67fr 13:27, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I re-added parts that I considered encyclopedic. Some content would be better written in prose and should be swapped and moved to other parts of the article but i dont have time right now. ...maelgwntalk 09:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Gallery

Diceman (talk · contribs) recently moved some of the pictures to a gallery. I don't really like galleries and think that pictures on the side make an article easier to read and hold the readers attention more than the images at the bottom. IMHO I think they we should move them back :: maelgwn :: talk 01:53, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Both arguments have merit. I think in its current form, the article appears neater with the "tourist" style shots in a gallery. With the current size of the article, that number of images tends to overtake and distract, so I think I marginally prefer the gallery at this stage. Murtoa 22:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Sea Transport

It's untrue that Seaway only sailed "in calm weather". If you take calm weather as meaning seas say less than a metre, or even two metres, Seaway certainly did sail under these conditions.Browning ave 09:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I felt it was worth mentioning that SeaWay was unable to sail under the same conditions that SeaLink could, it would have been better to reword it to your satisfaction rather than delete it wholesale. - Diceman 14:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've reworded to express its comparative performance with SeaLink. It would be ideal (but may be difficult) to get some third party confirmation of the reliability issue rather than the first-hand experience you allude to in the edit comment. Murtoa 12:44, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

It would have had something to do with the size of the boat and the movement of the cars on board. Also it had more distance to cover. Perhaps a boating expert could shed some light. - Diceman 15:11, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I can remember a school excursion/camp, or some such, where we sailed on Philanderer II from Peneshaw to Cape Jervis. My memory is not that clear, yet i believe it was a Year 7 Camp; which would date that journey in 1975. I remember the journey as it was a reasonably rough passage (though not the roughest passage across the Straights i experienced). I had kipped down on a row of seats near the stern of the vessel, in the below decks passenger area. Our art teacher, Margaret Patterson, (quite the interesting character) was attending to students who were feeling the effects of sea-sickness. She tossed a used sick-bag, from some distance within the cabin, out of the large, rectangular, open rear portal at the very stern of the vessel, which sailed over my head. I remember this incident as i was spotted by some leaking vomit, which was later noticed in my hair and so was teased by other students for being sea-sick, despite my protests. Philanderer ferries had been running for some time prior to that. I can also remember Philanderer I, though never sailed on that vessel, so would suggest that Peter March had been running Philanderer I for some while prior to 1975. I understand that by the time of Philanderer III, Peter March had generally retired and left the running of the vessels to his children. One could see these vessels at their winter anchorage in American River, as they did not run often over the winter months. My understanding is that the MV Troubridge was under-powered and unsuited for the waters and conditions. Troubridge was like a tall, fat, "bus" with the below decks holds virtually completely open to allow roll-on roll-off vehicular access for transportation. The rear top-deck was fitted for semi-trailer, truck and larger vehicles. The moveable gantry ramp attached to the Kingscote Jetty was raised or lowered to load the hold or upper-rear deck with vehicles. It was not comfortable passage in rough weather. I must have travelled on one of it's last several sailings in about March 1987, (chasing a local lass, home for the holidays, but studying in Canberra) which was a comfortable passage. March, generally, around that time, could be calmer than other times of the year. The seas around the north-east coast of Kangaroo Island can be particularly treacherous. Tides can run through Back Stairs Passage above 6 knots; and Kangaroo Island is one of the windiest places in Australia, with average wind speeds across the Island in the order of 25km/h (see http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/ for Cape Willoughby, Cape Borda etc). MV Troubridge would struggle to steam above 6 knots and with the wind and tides against it, or poor weather, would just not sail or turn back to Port Adelaide. There are many stories of the vessel getting blown backwards. The port at Kingscote is somewhat exposed to the Southerly/South Easterly trade winds coming across Nepean Bay. It was often a struggle to berth Troubridge there in adverse weather. A steel "Dolphin" was constructed at the end of Kingscote Jetty in the early 1970's in an attempt to save the pier from the numerous collisions between it and Troubridge whilst docking. I remember seeing this Dolphin wobble at a surprising angle after a firm hit, though damage to the jetty proper was relatively minimal. 7Mar5ha11 02:30 UTC, 23 March 2010.

Lifestyle

To my knowledge there are no recorded shark attacks on swimmers on the south coast.Browning ave 06:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Peregrine (Perry) Morris was likely taken by a shark at Pennington Bay in about 1980. He would have been about 16 years old at that time. No body was ever found. The incident was witnessed by Perry's older sister. The Morris family lived near Pennington Bay at the time of the incident. Perry was a Boarder at Rostrevor College CBC, Adelaide for most of his secondary school education. 7Mar5ha11 (talk) 20:09, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

David Peregrine (Perry) Morris drowned at Pennington Bay in 1979. He was 17 years old at that time. His body was retrieved about a week later. The Morris family lived at Haines (Royston Park) at the time of the incident. [These corrections from an IP user, 203.220.138.166; reverted] and transcribed by Doug butler (talk) 13:04, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Winery paragraph

There was a conflict of interest here, with a winemaker apparently writing about his own business (judging by the username of the contributor). So I've replaced it with a more general sentence about winemaking on the island. (p.s. since he used his own name, I don't think there's anything underhanded going on, just perhaps a misunderstanding of how WP works). Peter Ballard 12:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

infobox

Kangaroo Island

Geography
Location	South Australia
Coordinates	35°50′S 137°20′E
Administration
Australia
Demographics
Population	4 400

So here is my draft of an infobox. Infobox_Islands gives an example of how it is used. I dont like the width of the second map - so maybe we should change the infobox a little to allow the width to be changed - or just subst it on KI page? It needs more details still :: maelgwn :: talk 03:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for drafting it. Have to say it looks a bit bulky and unwieldy; dare I say it, but this particular infobox template doesn't add a lot more critical info than what we've already got there. Although I recognise that it assists in the grading of the article. Suggest that if it is proceeded with, the width is cut back. Might be worth some thought about the other parameters at the bottom of the box. The "total islands" field is redundant - the "Island" in "Kangaroo Island" is somewhat self-explanatory! Murtoa 10:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that the infobox is perfectly satisfactory as it is. I can see (and appreciate) that you'd like to tweak it before instituting it, but surely you could do this while it is there? The infobox as is is preferable to what is currently on the Kangaroo Island article. The images themselves - the maps; these are what I'd think need the most work. I can't promise I'll do that, but I could. - The Chairman 13:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The length of kangaroo Island (Almost directly East to West) is 144.4km. From the most westerly cape some 2.2km NW of the West Bay car-park, Latitude -35.8765°, Longitude 136.5331°, to Latitude -35.8413°, Longitude ,138.1348°; the most easterly point some 250 meters NE of Cape Willoughby Light House. The width of Kangaroo Island (North to South) varies between 925 meters, from a point on the beach 220 meters ENE from the intersection of Hog Bay and Muston Roads, Latitude -35.8431°, Longitude 137.7563°, to the small cove 530 meters E of the first car park towards the end of Pennington Bay Road above Pennington Bay, Latitude -35.8514°, Longitude 137.7554°; and the widest; (North to South... actually in a NNE/SSW direction... and I wonder the formal definition of length and breadth in these matters) is 59.03km, from the most Northerly part of the rock ledge at the north tip of North Cape Latitude -35.5609° Longitude 137.8219°, to the south most point of the rock ledge at the southern tip of Cape Gantheaume, Latitude -36.0755°, Longitude 137.4609°. (I am intrigued by the correct pronunciation of Gantheaume as it differs amongst the local residents, and also where the name comes from, and what it might mean / where it is derived).

Native Name: Karta. (see additions in "History" section) & http://www.samuseum.sa.gov.au/page/default.asp?site=2&page=TIN_Tribal&level=3&code=4&item=E4 Highest Mount: Mount McDonald, Lathami Conservation Park near Stokes Bay. Height: approximately 300 meters. Not Prospect Hill (Mount Tisby) as per current, which would not reach 300 feet. Largest City (Town): Kingscote Population: (Island total) 4686 (approx) http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/3218.02008-09 Population of Kingscote: (try the ABS "SuperTable") Population as of: 2009 Ethnic Groups: Mainly Anglo, also small remnant part aboriginal population believed to exist (see "King Wally" etc in history section)

(Most of this information has been derived from memory, as i have lost my notes from original sources from studies of the history of Kangaroo Island in 1982/83 & 1986/87 Some of these documents may now reside at the Queenscliffe Family Hotel). --7Mar5ha11 (talk) 08:05, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

American River

I deleted reference to the majority of the River's population living outside of the township. Unlike Parndana, which is a proclaimed Govt. township, and quite small in area, the township of American River is spread over a relatively large area. It encompasses the older part of the town, centred around the hall and post office, the coastal area towards the oval, and the areas developed in the 1970's above the original township.Browning ave 11:04, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

When did the Pennesshaw-Cap Jervis service begin?

The article says 1994 but that is definitely wrong because I rode it in 1993. Also in 1985 a student who was staying with us took a day trip to KI. I always thought he went by bus + ferry but maybe he flew. Peter Ballard 03:22, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

The Malaysian firm, MBF, acquired the ferry Philanderer 3 in 1989 from Peter March, who had been operating this particular ferry for most of the 1980's. Upon acquisition from Peter March, MBF traded under the name Kangaroo Island Sealink. In 1996, a consortium of staff members and KI residents acquired the company from MBF. Hence, the present Company has traded since 1996, but the Sealink name has been in existence since 1989.Browning ave 06:08, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

The Philanderer Ferries service of Peter March and family were running before i first lived on Kangaroo Island from 1969. 7Mar5ha11 02:34 UTC, 23 March 2010

Ligurian Honey Farms

Whilst the ligurian bee and honey products are important to Kangaroo Island, Ligurian Honey Farms would be considered a generic description and as such, not a particular place of interest.Browning ave (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 06:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

How many are there on KI? Murtoa (talk) 07:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

about 30 farms in 2006 http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2006/s1651920.htm I understand it might not be a place but there is certainly a fair amount of promotion - Clifford's leading the Google charge but I don't think I would want to promote one over the category --Matilda ^talk 07:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - in which case I think leave it out of the tourist bit as the activity is currently covered under "Population and Economy" (and that section could now include some of the content you've dug out) Murtoa (talk) 08:19, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Big Gap

Why is there a massive gap underneath the 'History' section?

can someone please fix this? 129.96.126.4 (talk) 04:13, 18 March 2009 (UTC) Lemphek of ASMS.

There isn't a gap on my screen. Maybe has something to do with your screen resolution/size. Sometimes the text allied with pictures paginates in an unexpected way according to individual set-up. Murtoa (talk) 23:58, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm having problems with both school computer and laptop. I have a screenshot if you want to see it for reference. 129.96.126.4 (talk) 01:49, 20 March 2009 (UTC) Lemphek of ASMS

History

Early Settlement. Local knowledge relates that a party of 3(?) non-indigenous settlers, with their native "Wives" were resident at Antechamber Bay, at the eastern end of the Island, in the early 1800's, prior to official white settlement. It is some 42km ESE of the Reeves Point settlement established by the South Australia Company in 1836. The party included John "King Wally" Waller, a large an impossing fellow, (???) Bates and (???). This party were sealers and possibly escaped convicts or deserted sailors. Their behaviour and interaction with the official white settlement would suggest they had something to hide. It is not difficult to imagine that they sought isolation, well away from existing settlements in NSW, Tasmania and Victoria. When discovered, Waller and company appeared to be living an indigenous lifestyle, living in bark huts and wearing animal skins. Antechamber Bay has good water in Chapman River, which would also have afforded a safe harbour from the southerly storms, and hidden from any passing shipping, abundant wild life and excellent fishing in the waters nearby. There are three small islets at the southern entrance to Backstairs Passage, called The Pages, which would have afforded excellent opportunities for the taking of Seals. There were young children in the Waller party when discovered. The age of the children would suggest that Waller's party were not resident from 1802, as detailed elsewhere; more likely after Flinders' discoveries had become known. The indigenous women were "stolen" from the mainland, as there were no indigenous residents on the Island at that time. The indigenous women were most reluctant to travel to the Island as, it is said, that Karta was the, "land of spirits" to the mainland tribes. I have long been curious about the legal circumstances of the first official settlement, in light of the fact that Antechamber Bay had already been settled, and what rights Waller and company should have retained. Source documents were available at Hope Cottage Museum, Centenary Avenue, Kingscote. http://www.hopecottagemuseum.com/ (I am indebted to Mrs Carter for her caring and assistance. Unfortunately i now live far to distant to access much of the source material that is available on Kangaroo Island and in Adelaide and elsewhere). I would be most surprised if some of the descendants of Waller and Company do not survive today. I have read some source material about the female descendants of these families, where it was said that there were no surviving male descendants by about the 1950's, to preserve the family names. There are however members of the Bruce family, the males of which are generally known as "Darky". The Darky Bruce i knew was a most superb horseman, though somewhat estranged from regular Island community. I attended Kingscote Area School with a "Hammond" Waller, though the one time i asked him if his family were connected to King Wally, he was most quick to deny that fact. I still wonder. Of course the political situation until relatively recently, with discrimination against indigenous and mixed blood people, it is known that these descendants had reason to hide their heritage. I hope that situation has changed in these more enlightened times. No doubt many would have most interesting stories to tell and would be a wealth of knowledge of Island history. 7Mar5ha11 (talk) 22:39, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

His name was Wallace. He was a sealer from Smithton in Tasmania. He was a Freemason. Wallace was his first name, not his last name. He has tens of thousands of descendants around Australia. All of this available from a thorough search of Kangaroo Island, including the three cottages of Faith, Hope and Charity. The women who travelled there were Tasmanian Aboriginals. Wallace bought them with fur coats from either their husbands or fathers, most likely the latter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.179.159.63 (talk) 08:14, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Ligurian Bees

I'm not aware of the section containing anything false, but it is not written as an encyclopaedia article so I put the "Essay-Like" template on this section. Examples include:

"The oft repeated legend of the birth of the Ligurian bee sanctuary appears on a multitude of web sites dealing with Kangaroo Island's :famous honey bees. The reality is more complex than the simple but incorrect version that twelve Ligurian queen bees were brought to the :island from Italy by August Fiebig in 1881. The implication is the quarantine gates were then locked forever after and all the honey :bees on the island since then owe their lineage to those original twelve queens. Not so! It didn’t happen that way.

Not sure what happened to my comment on the main page to explain what I did. Sorry! —Preceding unsigned comment added by DanShearer (talk • contribs) 20:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

The flavour also appears to reflect original research. If that's not the case, it desperately requires independent sources. If the section is to remain at this length, I think it warrants its own article as it occupies space in the KI article disproportionate to its significance. Murtoa (talk) 03:46, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

sources are a must. I grew up there, saw the bees, references may be hard to get Valkyrie 06 (talk) 23:18, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

The myth about Ligurian bees on KI has been refuted by science since the mid 1990's.....its just that apiarists and the state government aren't up with the science. It is amazing how different the truth is regarding the bees' genetics (they are actually hybrids and closer to the black/German bee subspecies than the Ligurian/Italian bees)! Thus the entire section needs to be removed and rewritten; please see my recently published (peer-reviewed) article in Austral Entomology (). It summarises the historical facts and genetic information. The abstract can be accessed at http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/aen.12124/abstract — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.184.25.17 (talk) 02:55, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

References

Wildlife and its protection

In researching a new page on Joseph Whittaker (botanist) from England who had Australian connections around 1839 to 1840, its likely that we can add some very useful early history to this section in due course, as well as some some modern information on the number of plant taxa and endemic plant species (39 taxa). For now our own page is still being assembled with more information in this source: Kraehenbuehl DN, Moyes N. 1999 Joseph Whittaker: early English botanical visitor to South Australia. S. Austral. Nat. 73. (3-4): 44-60 (1999) Parkywiki (talk) 23:07, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

whatever it was, I guess it happened in 1836

What makes a settlement "official"? If people build houses and live there, is it not a settlement until someone stamps a paper or something? —Tamfang (talk) 08:11, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Fixed; see European settlement of South Australia. Thanks for pointing this out. Graham87 14:39, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Missed one: "Originally established at Reeves Point on 27 July 1836, [Kingscote] is South Australia's first official European settlement." Can I remove the word, or should it be replaced with some other? —Tamfang (talk) 03:38, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

I deliberately left that in because I thought it was OK in that case, but I've gone and changed "official European" to "colonial"; that sounds better anyway IMO. Graham87 15:04, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. —Tamfang (talk) 20:02, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

The settlement by Governor Wallace is probably the most important thing to happen in Kangaroo Island history. It warrants mentioning. The greatest problem is that ambiguity of the truth of what really happened, as it is embroiled with ghost stories, superstitions and the kinds of things that rely on beliefs that Kangaroo Island is truly Karta, the island of the dead. There is already a small section in the article about it. Perhaps it is best that a place that is possibly the most haunted place in the world does not have much mention of the nature of the haunting made public. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.179.159.63 (talk) 08:17, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Highest point on Kangaroo Island (KI)

I have just added a ‘verify source’ tags to the infobox for the following reason. I looked at the 1983 version of the Royal Australian Navy chart, Gulf of St Vincent and Approaches, and discovered that Prospect Hill has a height of 328 feet (100 m) and is not the highest point on Kangaroo Island. There are numerous places higher than Prospect Hill. The three highest points which I can find in a quick read of the chart are all on or adjoining the north coast of KI (from west to east) are Cape Torrens 725 feet (221 m), Castle Hill 877 feet (267 m) and Mount Macdonnell 984 feet (300 m). It is likely that the latter is the highest point; however I would like to find a reliable source other than a chart before amending the article. By the way, I just noticed this subject had been briefly discussed on the TALK page (refer the subject of INFOBOX). Cowdy001 (talk) 02:36, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Reliable source found and article updated.Cowdy001 (talk) 00:34, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Fire

Link, if anyone is moved to add the recent bushfire: https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/ravine-fire-burning-on-kangaroo-island-virtually-unstoppable-in-current-conditions-cfs-says/news-story/e8ce03fa2178a0148a324627cabeb611 Elinruby (talk) 02:49, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Wrong 90km width

I believe the width bit about 90km is an accidental mistake introduced in this small edit from 25 September 2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kangaroo_Island&diff=prev&oldid=514433952 when the editor mistakenly converted 900m to 90km instead of 0.9km. There is no other source for this value and it obviously does not match the reality (and the Description section which looks reasonable). Should we fix it back? 185.137.217.15 (talk) 20:55, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Nice catch; fixed. Graham87 (talk) 06:04, 16 September 2024 (UTC)