Talk:Soqosoqo Duavata ni Lewenivanua

Fijian Alliance

A big welcome to the anonymous editor who has done much in the last couple of days to improveFiji-related articles on Wikipedia. For many months, I've had the job almost all to myself, and I'm so pleased to be joined by someone who is both able and willing to contribute. Thank you for correcting many of my own errors.

I believe the term Fijian Alliance is accurate. That was the formal name of the party, according to Ratu Mara himself in his autobiography, The Pacific Way. It was technically a coalition of parties - the Fijian Association, the National Indian Congress, and a party (whose name slips my memory) representing the European minority in Fiji. The Alliance served as an umbrella organization; each constituent party retained its identity. Electorally, it functioned as a single party, and was generally known as the "Alliance Party." Mara himself uses that term throughout his book, but states clearly that officially, it was the Fijian Alliance.

well you are wrong. the alliance was made up of the Fijian Association, the Indian Alliance, and the General Electors Association. Given that the word "fijian" has been a word of some contreversy, thanks to the national name debate, calling a ostensibly multiracial party by the name "Fijian Alliance" would not be countenanced.

--Xorkl000 15:20, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Wrong? If I am wrong, Ratu Mara is wrong. That is what he declares the party's formal name (as opposed to its informal name) to be, unless my memory of his autobiography is wildly off-base. I'll get it out of the library again and check, however, before being too dogmatic. If I'm wrong, I'll retract what I said and change the article name. If I'm right, I'll give you the page numbers. BTW, he defined the word "Fijian" differently from the way most people do. In his book, he says that he tried, and failed, to make the label apply legally to all Fijian citizens, and to use the work Taukei to refer to ethnic Fijians. David Cannon 23:04, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

thats not my recollection, get the book and lets see it, i can also drop down to national archives and see what was officially lodged with the supervisor of elections.

United Fiji Party vs Soqosoqo Duavata ni Lewenivanua

You made a comment that the SDL is almost never called the Soqosoqo Duavata ni Lewenivanua by the local media, and that the article should accordingly be renamed. I don't know whether to agree or disagree. My sentiments lean towards using national names of political parties whenever possible. A consensus was established, however, long before I joined Wikipedia, that all political parties should be labeled by their English names, if such exist, or by a translation, if not. (User:Adam Carr (and others) have argued, plausibly, that as this is an English-language encyclopedia, party names should be in English, and I don't feel strongly enough the other way to argue the case.

let me quote from List of political parties in Fiji

The general rule on naming applies. That means: the parties are named in the English translation and the original native name is placed on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly used in English than the English form.

"Read any english language newspaper or listen to english language radio in Fiji, and you will never see or hear the words "United Fiji Party". According the rule quoted above "the native form is more commonly used in English than the English form" then the page should be renamed.

we don't call Sinn Fein "Ourselves Alone", nor do we call Fianna Fail "Soldiers of Destiny", so i think the choice is obvious - I could go on (indian BJP, indonesian Golkar) but i think i won't

--Xorkl000 15:09, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

But what about outside of Fiji? This is an international encyclopedia, not a Fijian one. OUTSIDE of Fiji, the term "United Fiji Party" is used generally, with the Fijian name in parenthesis, in most international newspapers and magazines. David Cannon 23:04, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

i live in fiji and most of what i read is in the english language, so I'm basing this purely on my own experience. I think the way to settle this would be google, yahoo, msn, search on both terms, and remove the fiji based sites and compare numbers. Shall we carry out these experiment independently? --Xorkl000 12:02, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Anyway, thank you for your work! I hope you're here to stay. David Cannon 00:14, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Xork.

S.D.L should not be referred to as United Fiji Party. It can be confused with United Peoples Party headed by Mick Beddoes. Secondly, the names for the party should carry the name used in Fiji. Translating the name to English can be mis-leading.

Wikipedia here is following the general practice of using English names for political parties in non-English speaking countries (e.g. Liberal Democratic Party of Japan, etc.). This policy was in place long before I came to wikipedia. Personally, I'm more than willing to switch to the official Fijian names, but that would have to be done consistently. I'll have a look at some of the other countries and see whether there is any precedent to follow. David Cannon 03:55, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I just did the google test and the results are uttery conclusive:

• Soqosoqo Duavata ni Lewenivanua 13,300
• United Fiji Party 901

Furthermore the most first page of results for United Fiji Party are from Wikipedia or wikipedia derivivative - its seems this is the only place perpetuating this name. Its clear that this must be moved for the following reasons:

• Google test results are clear
• UFP is too easily confused with UPP as noted by the anonymous poster
• Wikipedia policy and precedent is also clear - we do not translate "Finna Fail", "Sinn Fein", "BJP", "Golkar" as the english translations are never used - the japanese Jiminto is a completely different case as LDP is the common english name.

So as soon as someone has the time, could they please process the move --Xorkl000 22:07, 4 May 2006 (UTC)