Talk:River Severn

Length

How long is it? --zeno 03:42 Jan 14, 2003 (UTC)

Not only that, but where are we measuring from? Presumably there's an area at the top of the Bristol Channel where it becomes tidal, but where does the rather precise 354 km come from? — Trilobite (Talk) 14:06, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The river is tidal up to the two weirs (Llanthony & Maisemore) at Gloucester.

I found a reference from the Environmental Agency | title= Frankwell Flood Alleviation Scheme, Shrewsbury| accessdate=2010-03-13| publisher= Environmental Agency that gave this figure. Michael Glass (talk) 23:28, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Where does it end?

I notice neither this article nor Bristol Channel has any discussion of where one starts and the other ends or exactly what the relationship between the two is. Could someone add that? --87.82.12.159 01:32, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Well the formal end of the 'Gloucester Harbour' as administered by the Competent Harbour Authority (Gloucester Harbour Trustees), is just downstream of the 'Second Severn Crossing'. Bob aka Linuxlad 09:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

From what I've heard, the River Severn changes into the Severn estuary after the Second Severn Crossing, and then the Severn Estuary becomes the Bristol Channel between Lavernock Point in the Vale of Glamorgan and Sand Point in Somerset(? not sure of the county). User:Owain18

Correct. That's my understanding too. --TimTay (talk) 15:27, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

This section as currently written in the article seems to me to be rather confusing: "By convention, the River Severn is usually considered to end, and the Severn Estuary to begin, after the Second Severn Crossing, between Severn Beach in South Gloucestershire and Sudbrook, Monmouthshire. The total area of the Estuary's drainage basin is 4,409 square miles (11,419 km2). That figure excludes the area of the River Wye and the Bristol Avon, both of which flow into the Severn Estuary." 1) The River Wye joins the Severn upstream of this description of the river-estuary transition, which by that logic would mean it flows into the River Severn, not (directly) into the Severn Estuary. 2) Either way, as the Avon and the Wye are stated to flow (directly or indirectly) into the estuary, what is the logic for excluding the area of their drainage basins from the total given for the Severn Estuary? Surely either they should be included, or (preferably) the figure excluding them should be stated to be the draining of the River Severn, not that of the Severn Estuary? (Preferably, because it is, after all, the former that is the subject of this article, not the latter.) 3) And as a more minor point, if the SSC is taken as the river-estuary demarcation point, wouldn't "at" be better than "after" in the first sentence? JA 1961 (talk) 17:11, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Huh?

The largest amount of the river goes through a town called Moorings

What does this mean? I've never heard of Moorings, but presumably if the largest part of the river passes through it it must be on the estuary. Can someone clarify this or reword it before I delete it? Graham 14:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Well I live about 5 miles away from the two road bridges, and have run or walked most of the river bank from Gloucester to Avonmouth. I think I might have spotted a _town_ called Moorings (as distinct from a few poles in the mud for mooring barges)Linuxlad 22:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

So are you agreeing with me that no such place exists? Or if it does, further upstream, then the other part of the statement must be false. Either way it sounds like nonsense in its current form. Graham 13:19, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Locks on the River Severn

Should there not be a page on the navigation locks on the River Severn? Come to think about it there is only an entry on canal locks and no reference to the fact that locks are also found on several rivers in the UK and many others throughout the world. DonBarton

Tidal bore

A tidal bore is not a solitary wave - the wikipedia article on tidal bores does not make this mistake. I have corrected this, but just wanted to make it clear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiwimhm (talk • contribs) 23:48, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed from tidal bore

The following text was removed from the tidal bore section. It seems to go off in an unrelated tangent. David D. (Talk) 02:09, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

"The canal was built in the 1820s to enable safer passage of trading ships to Gloucester. Just North of the Port are the remains of the Severn Railway Bridge, which bridged the river until it was badly damaged in a ship collision in 1960. Between Purton and Sharpness is an area known as The Ships' Graveyard, where many disused barges were scuttled along the bank to reduce erosion, which was threatening to destroy the banks of the canal. Several of these barges have 'concrete' sides and were intended for use in World War 2; there have been plans to restore some of them, as of historical interest."

Origin of "Hafren"

Could "Hafren" (Old Welsh "Habren") be derived from a Celtic term meaning "wide estuary"? In modern Welsh this would be "aber eang". Therefore Aber-eang(or similar)>Abereng>Abren>Habren? After all, the estuary is an obvious feature of the river, being one of the largest in Britain. Any comments/references? ML 24.11.06.

Edit tags

I cannot see why the edit tags from the Transport section appear together after the third image. Finavon 21:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Tidal Power

I've put a couple of "citation needed" tags in the Tidal Power section. There seems to be a POV being expressed there. Rojomoke 12:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Coordinates for source

Could someone provide coordinates for the source, please? Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 11:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

SN 822 898 Tim P (talk) 20:05, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Tidal range

I have just reverted an edit which changed the Severn from second to third highest tidal range in the world. To support this I removed one of the two BBC references and added one from the environment agency. If the original editor doubts the reliability of the BBC then there are more that I could add from trusted sources such as WWF, FOE etc. which support the claim that the Severn has the second highest tidal range in the world. --Cheesy Mike 08:18, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Tidal range II

The assertion that the Severn has the second largest tidal range in the world is inconsistent with other Wikipedia articles: Ungava_Bay Bay_of_Fundy

Perhaps these need to be updated, although I'm pretty sure that the Canadian Hydrographic Service is a more reliable source than the WWF. Where is the chain of citation with WWF or the BBC?

Feel free to correct either way, but as it stands, the encyclopedia is internally inconsistent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.9.237.22 (talk) 11:20, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I have added text re Ungava Bay, the tidal range in which according to this reference is recorded as exceeding that of the Severn. NOAA is a reliable source - more so perhaps than the BBC which will have sourced its information from elsewhere. cheers Geopersona (talk) 07:07, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Spring Tide

This sentence seems suspicious to me: "The largest bores occur in spring, but smaller ones can be seen throughout the year." The situation which happens if Sun, Moon and Earth are aligned, causing a larger tide, is called Spring Tide. The name "spring tide" does not have anything in common with the spring season. Could this sentence be a result of someone misunderstanding what "spring tide" means and assuming that the biggest tides happen in spring? I don't know of any reason why tides in spring should be bigger than those in summer, fall or winter. Matushorvath (talk) 02:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

what can i see/find on this map?

can everybody tell me, what show us this map: [1] about the severn and where it's on it?? i can find all other things there, but not the severn! Dontworry (talk) 10:10, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

The dark blue line between Newtown & The Bristol Channel is the River Severn.--Badgernet ^Talk 10:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I see what you mean. The map is quite confusing and it isn't immediately obvious that the river is the darker blue line. Could be improved greatly. I suggest a request to the map's author ChrisJB (talk) might be a good idea as he could produce a new version from his original source diagram. --TimTay (talk) 10:26, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

that's nice, but why is it a "no-name-river" on this map? ;-) so many names on it - but nowhere "severn"! Dontworry (talk) 10:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

WP:BOLD - go fix it yourself or contact the originator of the image. Only he can answer your questions. --TimTay (talk) 10:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

It is an awful map. Maybe I'll try and make a better, simpler one. It doesn't need all the towns and tributaries - just a high-ratio map of SW Britain with the main channel and major tributaries and maybe Bristol Gloucester, Warwick, Shrewsbury and one or two others. 82.69.77.254 (talk) 09:16, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's been what, a year now? Still don't see a new version. Clearly it wasn't so 'awful' after all. 82.36.124.13 (talk) 00:22, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Now, some tenmonths later, it is still ... awful. Just because it hasn't been fixed doesn't mean it's okeh. It needs to be replaced with an easily readable map. Kdammers (talk) 11:10, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

If it's that bad (I don't think it's that bad, though it certainly could do with improving), why doesn't someone put in a request at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Maps? Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:19, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Seahorse

The article describes the river deity as riding a seahorse (no illustration provded). Is this the actual marine seahorse, or the mythological hippocamp? The latter seems more likely, but I can't find a definitive answer. There's a note with this query in the text, too.

--Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 20:25, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

River cruises

Could somebody with local knowledge please update the information that is either conjecture, hope, or details that are likely to change? --Kudpung (talk) 11:59, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Bristol

Just a question .. can you really argue that the Severn runs through Bristol? The Avon definitely does - and Avonmouth is on the Severn - but the Severn is miles from the city centre. Beantrees (talk) 15:07, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

No. We might do this with a very broad interpretation of "through" that meant "through, or on the banks of" (the 20th century Port of Bristol is indeed directly on the Severn at Avonmouth, not the Avon) but even that's inconsistent. Why not thus include Newport or Cardiff as well? If we exclude those two for being "on the estuary" rather than "on the river", why not exclude Bristol similarly? The usual boundary is the second crossing, which is upstream of all three. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:32, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

How about Chepstow? More major than Lydney, pretty close to the Severn, Severn shipping was historically important to Chepstow and it's above the bridges. Maybe even Sharpness - there's not much to say about Sharpness, but what there is is related to the Severn. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:36, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Distance from the 'furthest point from the sea'

The article on Coton in the Elms in Derbyshire quotes the BBC quoting the Ordnance Survey that, it is the furthest point from the sea in Great Britain, at 113 km. This triangulates and equates to circa Westbury-on-Severn. Does anyone know why the Ordnance Survey consider this (or some more precise locale) to be the 'start of the sea'? ... And is there a reference? Regards Chienlit (talk) 12:21, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Measurements

At the moment, measurements in the articles are mostly metric first, except for three instances (all without citations) where miles are used. As this article is used for Wikipedia for Schools should it be consistently metric first? Michael Glass (talk) 00:34, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Fire?

My environmental science textbook mentions that in 2000 a large toxic fire took place in the flood plain during a large storm, due to buried toxic chemicals. then the area flooded a few days later. This seems fairly noteworthy, and the picture of the fireball in my book is impressive. yet I see nothing here, nor on severn river disasters, and i can't find a link for a severn flood plain (since this didn't actually occur on the river per se). Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.234.207.237 (talk) 23:06, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Two fires with Albright and Wilson (later Rhodia) at Avonmouth in the late 90s, lots of phosphorus spread over the surroundings. Then a tritium incident at another plant some years later. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:04, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

History of the Severn

There is no mention of the geographical history of this river? The Severn did not only flow south, there were two courses one went North and drained out through the present-day River Dee, Wales. It was not until the end of the last ice age that the the retreating ice left large amounts of glacial material between blocking the natural course north to Chester. The remnants of this great river are the meres that are in North Shropshire. It is mentioned here and here (but this too tecnical for me). The geology of how this river formed is a key component of an encyclopaedic entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.155.66.115 (talk) 00:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Disasters on the Severn

I have removed the contentious statement that said that since there had been many disasters on the river it was Britain's most dangerous river. Apart from the whole being unsourced, the latter does not necessarily flow from the former (excuse the puns). There are undoubtedly hazards associated with it, but that doesn't mean it is any more or less dangerous than anyt comparable watercourse. Geopersona (talk) 06:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Insulting page alert!

You are saying that England and Wales are "parts"/states/regions. That is very insulting to any Welsh readers (or maybe English readers), as it is damaging their different cultures. The UK is a "supercountry". I know Hawaii has a different culture from the US, but Hawaii has never been an indepent country. England, Wales, and Scotland have. Velociraptor888 15:38, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

You better start reading first, my friend. You can find information about the Kingdom of Hawaii here. Night of the Big Wind _talk 15:59, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh. Velociraptor888 15:01, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

The problem - so far as the infobox is concerned - lies with the terminology used at Template:Geobox/legend, where there is a field "Country" - for sovereign state - and a field "State" - meaning part of a country, such as a US state. The "State" field can be customised, and in this article was customised to read "Part". So far as Velociraptor888 is concerned, I guess the issue is that the infobox should refer to Wales and England as countries - which they are, per multiple discussions all over WP. Using the term "Part", meaning England and Wales, is pretty much deprecated on WP. But, it would look very odd if the info box said: "Country: United Kingdom. Countries: Wales, England". So, I've done a quick and dirty adjustment, to make it read as "United Kingdom (Wales, England)" - which is the best solution I can come up with. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:29, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

That quick fix looks fine to me. Even though I think we'd all agree that England and Wales are indeed both "parts of the UK". In Regions, I see we have Mid Wales. But does the course of the river beside Monmouthsire mean that South Wales should also be added? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:45, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, that part is the Severn estuary - which I think is generally regarded as distinct from the River Severn. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:52, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

In terms of an Aust/Chepstow boundary line definition that's perfectly correct. Even if we used the Second Severn Crossing as the river/ estuary boundary (an alternative suggested in the Estuary article), that still leaves only a tiny strech of South Wales "river coast". Martinevans123 (talk) 15:50, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Opening sentence

"The River Severn (Welsh: Afon Hafren, Latin: Sabrina) is the longest river in the United Kingdom, at about 354 kilometres (220 mi),[3][4] and the second longest in Britain and Ireland, behind the River Shannon." I first thought this sentence had confused "United Kingdom" with "Britain" when making statements about the Severn being the longest river. It can't be the #1 longest in the UK if it's only #2 longest in Britain. But it seems that this sentence is grouping Britain+Ireland, which I think is needlessly confusing. Perhaps these 2 names can be replaced with "the British Isles" for slight clarity. ZomgPancakes (talk) 17:42, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

This has arisen because of this edit on 28 February, which was unexplained. The current wording is confusing, and I'll return it to the previous longstanding (and, to most readers, less confusing) version. But obviously the term "British Isles" can be problematic, and an alternative might be to link the words Britain and Ireland to the right article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:54, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

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Route Map

Bit puzzled why the route map starts at Bewdley - is this because it's the navigable section, in which case maybe the legend should be "Navigable River Severn"? Or is it because the Hafren is being regarded as a separate river, which would be odd given that Afon Hafren redirects here. I ask because for example the Thames route map shows the whole length of the river from source to mouth. Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 07:34, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

pls you guys

I am using 4 hw where is the sea it flows into?? CherryLS (talk) 16:28, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

This isn't the place for that sort of question - you're better off asking at the WP:REFERENCE_DESK. WaggersTALK 12:16, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

@Waggers ok well I found it so yeah CherryLS (talk) 15:21, 29 September 2023 (UTC)