Talk:BDSM

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the BDSM article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5: 90 days

Wikipedia is not censored.
Images or details contained within this article may be graphic or otherwise objectionable to some readers, to ensure a quality article and complete coverage of its subject matter. For more information, please refer to Wikipedia's content disclaimer regarding potentially objectionable content and options for not seeing an image.

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 22, 2007	WikiProject peer review	Reviewed
November 25, 2007	Peer review	Reviewed

Contract (BDSM) was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 06 November 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into BDSM. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Branding (BDSM) was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 20 May 2010 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into BDSM. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Scene (BDSM) was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 14 May 2010 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into BDSM. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Sexology and sexuality Top‑importance

	Human sexuality portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sexology and sexuality, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of human sexuality on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Sexology and sexualityWikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexualityTemplate:WikiProject Sexology and sexualitySexology and sexuality articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

LGBTQ+ studies

	LGBTQ portal This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies articles
	This article has had a peer review which is now archived.

Pornography Mid‑importance

	Erotica and pornography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pornography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of pornography-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PornographyWikipedia:WikiProject PornographyTemplate:WikiProject PornographyPornography articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Sociology Top‑importance

	Society portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

A request was made for this article, or a prior version of it, to be copyedited by the League of Copyeditors on 04:15, 17 December 2007 (UTC). Unfortunately, the request was denied – the reason for its refusal is given below. The League is always in need of editors with a good grasp of English to review articles. Visit the Project page if you are interested in helping.
Proofread denied by Unimaginative Username (talk) (04:17, 17 December 2007 (UTC)) – Substantial discussion and improvement, but still needs revision beyond copy-editing: sources, verifiability, clear definition of terms, etc. Left a suggested plan for improvement..[reply]

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

February 8 to 14, 2015 (24th)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

BDSM Collar and Chain.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:07, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Madonna - Erotica / Sex

The Section under music refers only to songs released post 2010, whereas Madonna released the ground-breaking S&M-themed song 'Erotica' in 1992. The video contains nudity, Madonna dressed as a dominatrix and S&M imagery. While the lyrics refer to S&M, pain as pleasure, infantilism and the female as the dominant partner. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotica_(song) As well as this, she released the photograph book 'Sex' which is full of imagery of S&M & domination (female on female, female on male, male on female). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_(book) This was incredibly shocking in 1992, by the time Rihanna and Aguilera released their S&M-themed songs, the subject was already somewhat tame. Please give Madonna the credit she deserves for bringing the topic to the mainstream. 2A02:8309:2183:7800:BDFA:D66C:2D23:B424 (talk) 07:04, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Madonna - Hanky Panky / Human Nature

Furthermore, Madonna's 1990 single "Hanky Panky" is all about BDSM, with lyrics about spanking, bondage, domination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanky_Panky_(Madonna_song) The video for her 1995 single "Human Nature" also contained BDSM elements, with Madonna dressed in a rubber bodysuit, chained to a chair and also dominating bound male and female dancers and wielding a riding crop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Nature_(Madonna_song) 86.49.231.136 (talk) 09:45, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Request: "Addiction" section on masochism is absurd and offensive. Remove it.

The section on sadomasochism that describes it as an addiction was added by someone with an axe to grind and no sources to back them up. One citation suffers from every imaginable bias (a "phenomenological study" of 9 criminals in prison is hardly a scientific endeavor), and the other isn't even relevant (it's about gambling, and the supposed link is not apparent in the data). 50.47.99.220 (talk) 15:48, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The latter statement (correlating gambling) feels like OR/conclusion of the reader, so that has been removed. The study, I'm unsure about -- I've heard others speak of the addictive quality, so it's not entirely untrue, but I'll let someone else weigh in on the validity here. HalJor (talk) 21:40, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

According to Carlström:

"Although several informants in this study used the language of addiction to describe their BDSM practices, it is important to point out that BDSM has not been scientifically established as an addiction. In this context, the use of addiction and drug metaphors can rather be seen as a way to find suitable words to describe what one is feeling; by using a language that belongs to a drug discourse, one can make oneself understood because it has intelligibility, and a common significance for people outside the community. In this sense, Cameron and Kulick (Citation2003) describe the meaning of language, in making ourselves and our actions understandable:

"Language – used about anything – is not a perfect representation of experience or reality. But because humans are not able to read each other’s minds or experience each other’s bodily sensations, we depend on language to communicate (or dissemble) what we think and feel and want."

Carlström, C. (2018). BDSM, becoming and the flows of desire. Culture, Health & Sexuality, 21(4), 404–415. https://doi.org/10.1080/13691058.2018.1485969

According to De Neef et. al, this study is not definitive and is an "interesting notion (that) should be explored in future research." Therefore, it is premature and stigmatizing to BDSM practitioners when there is no other supporting research on addiction and BDSM other than 9 practitioners' statements about their own experiences.

Nele De Neef, Violette Coppens, Wim Huys, Manuel Morrens, Bondage-Discipline, Dominance-Submission and Sadomasochism (BDSM) From an Integrative Biopsychosocial Perspective: A Systematic Review, Sexual Medicine, Volume 7, Issue 2, June 2019, Pages 129–144, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.esxm.2019.02.002 SusanWrightAZ (talk) 19:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wow! Just some full-frontal nudity on this page huh.

Just a full set of titties and a vulva right on here. Stopchewingyourcuticles (talk) 10:59, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The gender ratio on these photos is also real bad. The photos of nude women outnumber every other subject something like 10:1, and the majority of men depicted are clothed/dominant. Saying this as a researcher of the topic and former professional in the community this is not a good look for this article, doesn't represent the history of or current reality of BDSM as a culture, and it needs to be either heavily trimmed or balanced. Stopchewingyourcuticles (talk) 11:03, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request: Reference 196

This reference and it's associated URL(s) redirect to "uea.su", an old domain on the UEA Students' Union which is no longer valid. The reference should be either removed entirely, or the URL(s) updated to reflect the domain change circa February 2022 (https://www.ueasu.org); as an aside, the associated student society no longer exists, so deletion may be recommended. Union Communications (talk) 13:38, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The reference includes a link to an archived version, which is appropriate for a case such as this. No action need be taken. HalJor (talk) 21:07, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done Reference has been updated. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 01:21, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article being considered an LGBT studies article

Why is this article considred an LGBT studies article. BDSM is not inherently LGBT. DarknessGoth777 (talk) 02:04, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested Edit: Prevelence

Under Psychology, 3rd paragraph, it states: "The prevalence of sadomasochism within the general population is unknown."

Suggest removing the above sentence and adding a new paragraph stating:

In the U.S., a 2017 prevalence survey found that in their lifetime, 32% of adults have engaged in spanking, 23% have engaged in role-playing, 21% in tying/being tied up, and 15% in playful whipping. Attending a BDSM party was much lower, at less than 4% of the U.S. population. (Herbenick, 2017) In Canada, nearly half of the people who responded to a prevalence survey said they were interested in at least one kind of unusual sexual interest: voyeurism, fetishism, frotteurism or masochism. Men and women both expressed similar levels of interest in masochism, and masochism was significantly linked with higher satisfaction in their sexual life. (Joyal, 2016)

Citations:

Herbenick, D., Bowling, J., Fu, T. J., Dodge, B., Guerra-Reyes, L., & Sanders, S. (2017). Sexual Diversity in the United States: Results from a nationally representative probability sample of adult women and men. PloS one, 12(7), e0181198. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0181198

Christian C. Joyal & Julie Carpentier (2016): The Prevalence of Paraphilic Interests and Behaviors in the General Population: A Provincial Survey, The Journal of Sex Research, DOI: 10.1080/00224499.2016.1139034 SusanWrightAZ (talk) 23:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]