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Section sizes

Section size for Fascism (49 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	8,110	8,110
Etymology	2,931	2,931
Definitions	16,619	23,976
Position on the political spectrum	4,960	4,960
Fascist as a pejorative	2,397	2,397
History	45	69,071
Background and 19th-century roots	3,300	3,300
Fin de siècle era and fusion of Maurrasism with Sorelianism (1880–1914) markup removed; cannot link (help)	4,579	9,693
Fascist syndicalism	5,114	5,114
World War I and its aftermath (1914–1929)	3,985	17,707
Impact of World War I	1,630	1,630
Impact of the Bolshevik Revolution	3,155	3,155
Fascist Manifesto and Charter of Carnaro	3,203	3,203
From populism to conservative accommodations	3,795	3,795
Fascist violence	1,939	1,939
Fascist Italy	1,035	8,230
Mussolini in power	2,045	2,045
Catholic Church	2,284	2,284
Corporatist economic system	1,057	1,057
Aggressive foreign policy	1,108	1,108
Nazi adoption of the Italian model	701	701
International impact of the Great Depression and buildup to World War II	6,994	6,994
World War II (1939–1945)	4,778	4,778
Post-World War II (1945–2008)	7,445	7,445
Contemporary fascism (2008–present)	127	10,879
Greece	3,109	3,109
Post-Soviet Russia	7,643	7,643
Tenets	1,135	24,944
Nationalism with or without expansionism	1,940	1,940
Totalitarianism	1,906	1,906
Economy	10,239	10,239
Direct action	1,140	1,140
Age and gender roles	6,394	6,394
Palingenesis and modernism	2,190	2,190
Culture	12	7,968
Aesthetics	5,497	5,497
Popular culture	2,459	2,459
Criticism	577	10,349
Anti-democratic and tyrannical	510	510
Unprincipled opportunism: Italian fascism	4,972	4,972
Ideological dishonesty: Italian fascism	4,290	4,290
See also	447	447
References	28	28
Bibliography	17	52,147
Primary sources	4,273	4,273
Secondary sources	41,433	41,433
Tertiary sources	2,591	2,591
Further reading	3,833	3,833
External links	1,740	1,740
Total	201,711	201,711

Fascism is a right-wing ideology.

The lede of the article says that "Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement". This statement is the result of a very long process of discussion and debate and has strong consensus acceptance within the Wikipedia community, based on the consensus of political scientists, historians, and other reliable sources that Fascism is a (far) "right-wing" ideology and not a "left-wing" one. This has been discussed numerous times. Please see this FAQ and read the talk page archives.

Please do not request that "right-wing" be changed to "left-wing"; your request will be denied, and you may be blocked from editing if you persist in doing so.

An inherent contradiction?

The lead of the article sets out an extremely detailed and very broad definition of fascism, selecting references that support the authors' arguments. Then the next section admits that there is no agreed definition of fascism, and that authoritative (at least, referenced) views of what it is differ to the extent that no broadly agreed definition is possible.

I shall make the radical suggestion that there is no generic or accepted definition of fascism, nor can there be in terms of how the word has entered general usage. The possible exception is the Italian regime of 1922-1943 led by Benito Mussolini which (as I understand it) styled itself Fascism. Other than that, I suggest that all definitions of fascism are essentially descriptions of political and economic systems to which the authors of those definitions are opposed, i.e. expressions of authorial opinion. This is not the purpose of WP.

I do not suggest that all is lost. Authoritarian political systems, for example, can be defined in ways that meet broad agreement, even if individuals disagree whether particular systems are or are not authoritarian. Democracy, Autarky and other politico-economic manifestations can be defined similarly. Fascism can't.

This can be regarded as a plea for humility from WP, i.e. an acceptance that it cannot be the arbiter of a definition that can never achieve more than partisan acceptance. A true definition, I suggest, would be 'a term of abuse for a variety of politico-economic systems, used by parties opposed to them.' You could then go on to include examples. Italian (1922-1943) Fascism would be a separate topic, since there is no causal or other connection. Chrismorey (talk) 13:17, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would take this more seriously if the next section had not been Etomolgy, which does not discuss anything about no agreed definition. Slatersteven (talk) 13:21, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mussolini's government identified fascist movements in 39 countries and invited them to a fascist international, at which 13 attended. Certainly people self-identified as fascist beyond Italy. Mussolini had laid out the central tenets of fascism in The Doctrine of Fascism. Americans abuse the term socialist also, that does not mean it is meaningless. TFD (talk) 13:58, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Slatersteven deleted my edit. I don't know why.

I was being bold. It probably wasn't a constructive edit. I didn't understand Slatersteven's question and why he reverted.Nashhinton (talk) 14:15, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was not a question, your wording implies it was once something, but no longer is. I made the point that it has not changed, it is still right-wing popularism. Slatersteven (talk) 14:21, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Nashhinton (talk) 14:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"right-wing popularism" Right-wing populism, not popularism. Dimadick (talk) 09:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Point still stands. Slatersteven (talk) 10:31, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hermann Göring has an RfC

Hermann Göring has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Emiya1980 (talk) 02:50, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How is Fascism "opposed to … anarchism"?

Wikipedia literally has an entire article dedicated to National Anarchism, known in popular culture as Anarcho-Fascism, yet it manages to claim that Fascism is "opposed to … anarchism". MicholIsUsed (talk) 13:42, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anarcho-Fascism is not considered a form of anarchism. TFD (talk) 13:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to Meinong's jungle. Generalrelative (talk) 15:38, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not far-right nor far-left

Fascism couldn't be considered far left or far right, as it's actually very close to the centre of economical spectre. Some sources indeed deem F. as a far-right ideology, but lacks of any valid argumentation. We just better avoid highlighting it's economical stance in the lede. Chronophobos (talk) 19:19, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Read FAQ. Also this is not a forum. YBSOne (talk) 19:22, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ultra-conservativism in National Socialism

The lede of this article says that Fascism is a 'far-right' ideology. The page soon says that Adolf Hitler is a Fascist. The lede of the far-right politics page says that the 'far-right' tends to be 'radically conservative'. The lede of ultraconservativism says that 'ultraconservativism' refers to 'extreme conservativism' and finnaly the lede of conservativism says it 'seeks to promote and preserve traditional institutions, customs, and values.' We can piece this all together to say that, according to Wikipedia, Adolf Hitler (arguably the creator of National Socialism) seeks to 'preserve traditional institutions, customs and values', but since he is said to be an 'ultraconservative', he wants to basically not change anything of traditional institutions, customs or values.

This is directly contradicted not only by evidence of most Nazi-period historians, but also by Wikipedia itself, which says numerous times that Hitler and the National Socialists desired expansion into Eastern Europe in order to conquer living space (Lebensraum) for the survival of the 'Aryan race'; a 'New Order', which rejects the idea of them desiring to 'preserve traditional institutions'; (though some disagree) the National Socialists also rejected Christianity (or at least it being a fundemental part of their ideology) and thus can not be labaled as desiring to '[preserve traditional] customs'. Finally, the National Socialists did promote '[traditional] values' in the sense that they promoted 'traditional' family dynamics, but, importantly, only in 'Aryan' families. Other than that, traditional (Christian) values like 'you shall not murder' were encouraged, once again, only in the 'Aryan' community.

This is why I believe that the 'far-right' part of the lede for Fascism should either be removed or there should be a disclaimer that only some Fascist movements aspire 'ultraconservativism'. MicholIsUsed (talk) 17:57, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The word "conservative" is not used in the lede of this article, and the tension of fascism vs. traditional conservatism is already discussed in the "tenets" section, so I'm not sure what you actually want to be changed. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I changed my mistake. I guess the word 'far-right' shouldn’t be used in this article then, since as I explained, there is nothing 'ultraconservative' about National Socialism. MicholIsUsed (talk) 14:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RS say otherwise. Slatersteven (talk) 14:21, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please use striking and inserting to amend your comment, so that Writ Keeper's reply still makes sense. As for the rest, please see the FAQ. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to everything Firefangledfeathers correctly says: "tends to be" is not the same as "equals exactly", so your entire chain of logic falls apart at the first link; "far-right tends to be radically conservative" means it is usually ultraconservative, but does not have to be precisely that. (There are many other problems with your logic, but since this is a talk page for improving the article and not a debating club, I'll leave it at that.) Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

'tends to be' means that it usually is ultrsconservative. So if it isn’t 'ultraconservative', as 'far-right' ideologies 'tend to be', maybe the page shouldn’t state so confidently that Nazism is 'far-right'. And please explain my othee falsehoods as I am trying to improve the page by this discussion. MicholIsUsed (talk) 15:10, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We go by what RS say, RS say it is a far-right ideology. Slatersteven (talk) 15:16, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is RS? MicholIsUsed (talk) 19:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]