Talk:Lake Champlain

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The new picture

Thanks for the new picture! It looks like a shot looking west from Burlington harbor towards the breakwater, taken with a wide-angle lens. Is it? We could put some of that info into the caption if so.

Atlant 1 July 2005 11:19 (UTC)

picture

You are correct, the picture was taken from burlington harbor last summer looking west out towards the breakwater. No fancy lenses though, just a standard digital point and shoot.

I'm glad you found the picture acceptable. I'm still new at this wikipedia thing and often feel a bit like a 'vandal' whenever I modify an article that other people have put a lot of work into.

Please feel free to change the caption to better reflect the location of the image etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitomac (talk • contribs) 14:03, 1 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sixth largest body of fresh water in the United States?

Can anyone cite a source for this? I don't necessarily doubt it, but I am curious as to whether or not this includes all or any of the Great Lakes, the lakes of Alaska, and what the top five lakes are. -- Ithacagorges 05:54, August 8 2005 (UTC)

According to http://www.nationalatlas.gov/articles/mapping/a_general.html, the round-up of the top-twenty (when sorted by surface area) is as follows:

Lake Location Area in Square Miles
1. Lake Superior Michigan-Minnesota-Wisconsin-Ontario 31,700
2. Lake Huron Michigan-Ontario 23,000
3. Lake Michigan Illinois-Indiana-Michigan-Wisconsin 22,300
4. Lake Erie Michigan-New York-Ohio-Pennsylvania-Ontario 9,910
5. Lake Ontario New York-Ontario 7,340
6. Lake of the Woods Minnesota-Manitoba-Ontario 1,485
7. Great Salt Lake Utah 2,117
8. Iliamna Lake Alaska 1,014
9. Lake Oahe (manmade) North Dakota-South Dakota 685
10. Lake Okeechobee Florida 662
11. Lake Pontchartrain Louisiana 631
12. Lake Sakakawea (manmade) North Dakota 520
==> 13. Lake Champlain New York-Vermont-Quebec 490
14. Becharof Lake Alaska 453
15. Lake St. Clair Michigan-Ontario 430
16. Red Lake Minnesota 427
17. Selawik Lake Alaska 404
18. Fort Peck Lake (manmade) Montana 393
19. Salton Sea California 347
20. Rainy Lake Minnesota-Ontario 345

Their apparent sources:

About our Great Lakes, NOAA, 2002

U.S. Geological Survey, 2003

Apparently, the order varies slightly when sorted by volume (as some lakes are much deeper than others).

Atlant 13:16, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The claim has been around for a while, at least since the turn of the previous century... which may also explain it. First, we can remove The Great Salt Lake, and Lake Ponchartrain from the list as neither are fresh water. Lakes Oahe and Sakakawea were not yet created when the claim was first made, and Iliamna would not have been counted because Alaska was not yet a State... That would move Champlain up to Number 8 (behind the five Great Lakes, Lake of the Woods and Lake Okechobee). I also suspect the historical validity of the claim is based on Volume. Blueboar 01:03, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you drop Lake of the Woods as being mostly in Canada, basing it on volume Champlain passes Okeechobee and is 6th (or was before Alaska became a state). Today it'd be 8th in the U.S. based on volume - behind the Great Lakes, Iliamna, and Sakakawea (volumes found on wiki pages and [1])Kmusser 16:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Revised as Lake Mead and Lake Powell would pass Champlain based on volume - so it'd be 10th. It would be the 7th largest natural lake in the U.S. (6th if you exclude Alaska). Kmusser 16:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It is worth noting that Lake Champlain is part of the Great Lakes drainage in that it flows to the sea through the St. Laurence. Dmccabe — Preceding undated comment added 20:24, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Winter railroad crossing(s)?

I've heard it told that, during the winter when the lake is frozen solid, in the old days they would build a temporary railroad across the lake to New York, simply sitting the railroad track directly on the ice.

This sounds a bit like a tall tale to me, but might have just been within the realm of possibility/practicality.

Does anyone know for sure whether or not this was done, and, if so, where on the lake it was done?

Atlant 18:55, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't know, but there was a RR crossing on barges; you can still see at least one of them with a shallow scuba diveDmccabe 12:44, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's possible. They did this for at least one winter, likely more, in Montreal during the lead-up to the construction of the Victoria Bridge over the St. Lawrence. Winters in Vermont and southwestern Quebec were colder and longer-lasting during the 1800s, according to climate archives. Plasma east 18:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pictures at bottom

Are these needed, and if so, can they be integrated better? -- Whereizben - Chat with me - My Contributions 14:40, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tech thing: "edit" links

What's with all the "edit" links next to the "Modern History" section heading? I'm looking at the page using Firefox 2.0.0.8, and there's a string of "edit" links next to the "Modern History" header that seem to go to each of the prior headings. The article has also twice caused Firefox to freeze when I tried printing the whole thing, although "print selection" worked fine. --grant 20:04, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's all the pictures at the beginning of the article: if those would be spread around, the edit buttons would be where they belong. --Qyd (talk) 03:45, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've embedded them in a div container, that fixes the edit buttons alignment; still it would be better if pictures would illustrate specific information in the article. --Qyd (talk) 19:18, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Elevation?

I came here hoping to find Lake Champlain's elevation above sea level. 140.147.160.34 (talk) 16:37, 14 March 2008 (UTC)Stephen Kosciesza[reply]

Added elevation of 95 ft (and metric equivalent) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aiken1986 (talk • contribs) 22:17, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Loch Ness Monster

I saw a special on TV about how, supposedly, Lake Champlain has a Loch Ness monster type creature in it. Shouldn't it be added? Mumbles (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 18:10, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops, just found an article for ol' Champ. :D But he still deserves a mention. Mumbles (talk) 18:14, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Structure

Lots of good information here. Please follow structure of Wikipedia:WikiProject Lakes so lake researchers can have an easier time. I tried to restructure and the results, admittedly were a bit jerky and will need to be redone for better flow, but the overall structure is correct. Reading the projects guidelines may have with further article development. Student7 (talk) 13:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shoreline?

A Burlington Free Press article claimed that there were 700 miles of shoreline, disagreeing with the information in our article. All the other figures matched. I don't know how this is measured. Are islands included? See BFP 8/2/2009 page 10D. May be online as of this writing.Student7 (talk) 15:21, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think our number is right, even with the Coastline paradox issues, 700 seems way too high. Most on-line sources use 587, although they may be getting that from us. [2] uses 570. Doing a quick GIS calculation I got 592. Kmusser (talk) 16:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lake Champlain bridge out?

I heard on the radio that there is a Lake Champlain road bridge out, and motorists are using ferries or driving a long way to get around the bridge that is out. I see from Mapquest that US 2 has several bridges, and VT 78 has a bridge. Can some Vermonter tell us what bridge is out? Beyond that, pictures and more information about bridges over parts of the lake would be interesting. --DThomsen8 (talk) 21:47, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The bridge is named the Lake Champlain Bridge. It is at Crown Point, New York, about 13 miles west of Middlebury, Vermont. It has no route number itself, but connects Vermont Routes 17 and 125 with New York Routes 22 and 9N. There is a story about it on the WPTZ site. --Jc3s5h (talk) 22:43, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is a temporary pedestrian ferry across the lake at Westport, NY. It started Monday [3].--Pleasantville (talk) 23:17, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Coast Guard

An editor has added "All active navigational aids on the lake are maintained by USCG Burlington station, along with those on international Lake Memphremagog to the east; this facility houses the primary maritime public safety units for both lakes." That is great but the lakes don't interconnect except through the Saint Lawarence which belongs to Canada and isn't really navigable for a CG craft anyway. HQ could be in Burlington maybe? Student7 (talk) 13:45, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have revised the article to more closely follow what the USCG web site states. I would speculate that aids to navigation on Lake Memphremagog could be maintained by sending a truck with a trailer from Burlington. --Jc3s5h (talk) 16:04, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If they say they take care of navigation aids on Lake Memphremagog, that's what they do; how they get there is a non-issue.

Student7 seems to believe the Coast Guard has to travel by water. According to the person I just spoke with at the station, they do trailer a boat to launch at Newport. It's a moot point though, because Lake Memphremagog does not connect to the St. Lawrence.

That the St. Lawrence "isn't really navigable for a CG craft" is just plain wrong: if ocean-going cargo ships can use it to get from the Atlantic to Lake Erie, anything the Coast Guard floats sure could. The largest vessel at the Burlington station is a 49-foot buoy tender, which certainly wouldn't have any trouble. --Mfwills (talk) 14:15, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Need section on alga bloom

It's a big problem —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.203.59.178 (talk) 01:08, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alburg / Alburgh

In 2006, Alburg voters attending Town Meeting decided to revert the name to its original spelling of Alburgh. This does not mean that everything in the town changed. There are still businesses using the shorter spelling for legal reasons, and "named locations" within the town (e.g., Alburg Springs, East Alburg) which did not change; this would also apply to the body of land: officially changing the name of the town does not mean that the Alburg Tongue automatically became the Alburgh Tongue.--Mfwills (talk) 11:20, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Province Point

Two problems:

In light of the above Alburg / Alburgh section, East Alburg did not automatically become East Alburgh in 2006.
East Alburg is not nor was it ever a town. Some might loosely refer to it as a village,; others would reserve that term for an incorporated municipality within a town. --Mfwills (talk) 11:43, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Infrastructure/Mainland

The article notes that as of 2009, there is only one bridge, yet then states a second was (re?)opened in November 2011. I'd edit this to clarify, but I'd like someone more familiar with the area to verify this is in fact true first. MichaelCaricofe (talk) 00:14, 25 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

La Chute river

Wouldn't the La Chute river, from which outflow from Lake George enters Lake Champlain, be one of the primary inflows? It's not listed, but I'd guess the water volume entering the lake from the La Chute would rival or exceed some of the other inflows listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.179.104.130 (talk) 13:06, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done Student7 (talk) 15:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced Material

Below information was unsourced long-term. Feel free to reinsert with appropriate references. DonIago (talk) 12:45, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Railroad

===Railroad===

There were four significant railroad crossings of the lake. As of 2011, only one remains.

The "floating" rail trestle from Larabees Point, Vermont to Ticonderoga, New York was operated by the Addison Branch of the Rutland Railroad. It was abandoned in 1918 due to a number of accidents which resulted in locomotives and rail cars falling into the lake.

The Island Line Causeway. This marble rock-landfill causeway stretched from Colchester, Vermont (on the mainland) three miles (5 km) north and west to South Hero, Vermont. Two breaks in the causeway were spanned by a fixed iron trestle and a swing bridge that could be opened to allow boats to pass. Rutland Railroad (later Rutland Railway) operated trains over this causeway from 1901-1961. The Railway was officially abandoned in 1963, with tracks and trestles removed over the course of the ten years that followed. The marble causeway still remains, as does the fixed iron trestle that bridges the lesser of the two gaps. The swing bridge over the navigation channel was removed sometime in the early 1970s. Now called Colchester Park, the main three-mile (5 km) causeway is a recreation area for cyclists, runners, and anglers. Two smaller marble rock-landfill causeways were also erected as part of this line that connected Grand Isle to North Hero, Vermont and from North Hero to Alburgh.

The Alburgh, Vermont - Rouses Point, New York rail trestle. From sometime in the late 19th century until 1964, this wooden trestle carried two railroads (the Rutland Railroad and the Central Vermont Railroad) over the lake just south of the US 2 vehicular bridge. The iron swing bridge at the center (over the navigation channel) has been removed, but most of the wooden pilings remain and can easily be seen looking south from the US 2 bridge. Part of the trestle on the Rouses Point side has been converted for use as an access pier associated with the local marina.

The Swanton - Alburgh, Vermont rail trestle. Built in the same manner as at Rouses Point, crossing the lake just south of Missisquoi Bay and the Canadian border, within yards south of the Vermont Route 78 bridge. It is still in use by the New England Central Railroad.

I've added sources for much of this material, but I encourage further improvement. Jc3s5h (talk) 15:01, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your work on this! DonIago (talk) 15:03, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Choice of units

Almost all of Lake Champlain is in the US. Doesn't that imply that the default units should be the US customary units? I think that's what Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#Units of measurement indicates. Rks13 (talk) 05:24, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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One source was not really dead, and the archive copy did not work. I removed all information about archiving.

I updated the other, the Lake Champlain Basin Atlas, to the latest link from the Lake Champlain Basin Program. Jc3s5h (talk) 18:10, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Units

Given that the lake is primarily in the US, the article should list US measurements (miles, feet, etc.) first. The article flips between US and metric units randomly at the moment. Calidum 05:32, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation

I just noticed that the pronunciation puts emphasis on the first syllable. I've lived in the Burlington, VT, area for many years. Absolutely everyone (in local media and in everyday in-person interaction) pronounces it with emphasis on second syllable: "sham-PLAYN" "layk sham-PLAYN".— Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.179.97.111 (talk • contribs) 26 February 2022 UTC (UTC)

I have changed it. My guess is the person who added the respell template didn't know that in IPA the emphasis mark comes before the stressed syllable, not after. Some dictionaries put the stress mark after the syllable. Jc3s5h (talk) 19:41, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Suggestions

This article looks correctly updated, however, the following edits could be made:

The “Colonial America and Revolutionary War” section lacks citations, so adding those in would be important.
Adding more modern-day information would strengthen the article. The article has significant portions about its history and infrastructure, and adding perspectives on the lake as of today would help make this article more well-rounded

Jag223 (talk) 18:14, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]